Beware of Toddler

[garnet]

Originally Posted by case

As for the people that are irritated with my child's misbehavior and find it in their place to judge my methods of discipline, they just have to deal.

While it sounds like you're doing all the right things, I have to disagree with the statement above. I'm childless by choice--and gloriously happy about it. I don't think anyone else should have to suffer because of some kid's bad behavior, whether or not the parent has control of the situation. I've seen meals and a few weddings ruined by screaming children. I'm not saying it's the kid's or the parent's fault--afterall, kids will be kids. I just don't think you should subject other people to it unless there's absolutely no other way around it. Having kids is a choice in every sense of the word. If your choice is to have kids, great--but don't make others "deal" with your choice.

[wolf]

Most states allow for physical discipline of swats with the hand to a fleshy part of the body (i.e., buttocks). No implements may be utilized.

This definition comes from a CYS caseworker.

No, my own personal take on the biting issue? Bite back. Not hard enough to bruise, but hard enough to make an impression.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by wolf

Bite back. Not hard enough to bruise, but hard enough to make an impression.

Worked for me and all three of my children.

Also, on the spanking, it doesn't work on every child. My oldest son...never fazed him. The middle boy, HAD to be used, or nothing would get through. My daughter... all you have to do is look at her sternly and it has the same effect.

Each child is different.

But in ALL cases, punishment MUST be consistant.

[LabRat]

Well, the biting has in my opinion become less of a problem, at least it is not getting worse. So, I plan on continuing my current discipline's direction till it's not. My goal in starting this thread was to get info from ANYONE who has either gone thru this, or been sufficiently involved in a childs life as to have working knowledge of this problem and therefore give good advice as to what worked (or not!) for them (or someone close to them). I am digesting all the commentary so far, and I definately agree that 1) whatever i do, it must be consistantly applied as a form of dicipline, by everyone my child spends significant amounts of time with; and 2) spanking works in rare situations, and i will spank if I deem it necessary, tho so far I feel she has never needed it because she knows my "vengeful god" voice means i'm serious (because i'm not afraid to leave my cart in the store and leave if that's what is needed etc.) So far, things have never escalated to the point where spanking was my last resort. I agree that certain types of discipline only teach one to not get caught instead of not doing it in the first place, and that is what I am trying to avoid!! Please, contuniue the discussion, I value all the opinions presented, from all

PS What the hell is anyone doing bringing kids to a movie theater to see a movie that's not specifically designed for kids?? I have also seen infants at stock car races...WITHOUT ear protection. Even I wear earplugs for pete's sake, nerdy or not.

[perth]

Originally Posted by LabRat

Muzzles don't come in 2T.

I've read this thread several times and never caught this. Now the image of it has got me laughing way more than I probably should.

The advice of the childless really can be helpful. It's a totally different perspective. There has been plenty posted in this forum by the "child-free" that has been very helpful and I've often taken it to heart and availed myself of it in real life. The problem, I think, comes not from the advice itself (which really is sometimes helpful, sometimes garbage, I've actually had someone tell me that "a little bit of benadryl will put a stop to his crying") but in the attitude of the advisor. Often it's not "this is how *I* would do it" but "this is how is *should* be done". Well, without the empirical evidence that comes with years of child rearing, you're not really qualified to use the sweeping judgement implied by the attitude.

But yeah, there are a lot of people on this board who's opinion I value and trust, whether they're parents or not. By the same token, there are people on this board who seem to specialise in garbage. The hard part comes in figuring out, based on what I read, who's joking, who's serious, and who is full of shit. Actually, that's not very hard at all.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by perth

The advice of the childless really can be helpful. It's a totally different perspective. There has been plenty posted in this forum by the "child-free" that has been very helpful and I've often taken it to heart and availed myself of it in real life. The problem, I think, comes not from the advice itself (which really is sometimes helpful, sometimes garbage, I've actually had someone tell me that "a little bit of benadryl will put a stop to his crying") but in the attitude of the advisor. Often it's not "this is how *I* would do it" but "this is how is *should* be done". Well, without the empirical evidence that comes with years of child rearing, you're not really qualified to use the sweeping judgement implied by the attidude.

I agree...when it is advice, and not just criticism with no real constructive or knowledged backing. Well said, perth.

[jane_says]

Of course you can post anywhere you like. All I'm saying is you seem to make it a point to disagree with everyone here as often as you can. Maybe take up crocheting or something. Most of us find posting here, and the relationships we've formed with fellow posters, relaxing and fun. I can't imagine constant disagreement would be fulfilling or fun, and certainly not recreational.

You're the one who's being insulting now. I didn't ask a stupid question, and I'm sorry that you narrowly viewed it that way. I just wondered if every noise would be as offensive to you as a child.

If you're not allowing "poorly behaved children" to ruin your social life, what's your beef? And yes, if they bother you, and you're to avoid being bothered, staying home is your only option. On the other hand, if they don't bother you, you're yapping about something that doesn't affect you.

Though we're talking about someone else's kids, it sounds to me like this child is certainly not being exposed to anything "scary". Oh no! Family members have said bad words! Ooooh! Call Social Services, because certainly children cannot be exposed to naughty language, or their little ears will fall off and they'll become sociopaths. Tension! Egads, call a psychiatrist. Anger!! On my! Normal people never get angry.

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by jane_says

Of course you can post anywhere you like. All I'm saying is you seem to make it a point to disagree with everyone here as often as you can. Maybe take up crocheting or something. Most of us find posting here, and the relationships we've formed with fellow posters, relaxing and fun. I can't imagine constant disagreement would be fulfilling or fun, and certainly not recreational.

Now now...not all of Garnet's posts are contrary. There's some where the posts have been downright congenial and agreeable.

Originally Posted by jane_says

You're the one who's being insulting now. I didn't ask a stupid question, and I'm sorry that you narrowly viewed it that way. I just wondered if every noise would be as offensive to you as a child.

It's possible that some people find a barking dog less annoying than a child. On a personal note, I simply abhor the sound of a crying baby or small child. It grates on my nerves. I'd rather have a barking dog near me than a screaming baby. If a child decides to throw a tantrum near me, there's little I can do about it. But that doesn't put me under any obligation to like or tolerate it. Sure, it's not my kid and it's none of my business how the parent disciplines. All I want is for the kid to stop crying and screaming. Soothe the kid, give him caramel to stick his teeth together, stuff his mouth with cotton...just get him quiet.

Originally Posted by jane_says

If you're not allowing "poorly behaved children" to ruin your social life, what's your beef? And yes, if they bother you, and you're to avoid being bothered, staying home is your only option. On the other hand, if they don't bother you, you're yapping about something that doesn't affect you.

Staying home is hardly the only option. There's plenty of places people go where they just don't bring screaming babies. The trick is to find and frequent those places. And in other places, there's a noise policy and you can have the offending child and parent removed. Granted, some places are just more likely to have Kid Issues and there's little one can do about it.

Originally Posted by jane_says

Though we're talking about someone else's kids, it sounds to me like this child is certainly not being exposed to anything "scary". Oh no! Family members have said bad words! Ooooh! Call Social Services, because certainly children cannot be exposed to naughty language, or their little ears will fall off and they'll become sociopaths. Tension! Egads, call a psychiatrist. Anger!! On my! Normal people never get angry.

I had a pretty clean and normal upbringing, so of course I grew up to be a little angel! ...oh, I mean...

[garnet]

Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf

It's possible that some people find a barking dog less annoying than a child. On a personal note, I simply abhor the sound of a crying baby or small child. It grates on my nerves. I'd rather have a barking dog near me than a screaming baby. If a child decides to throw a tantrum near me, there's little I can do about it. But that doesn't put me under any obligation to like or tolerate it. Sure, it's not my kid and it's none of my business how the parent disciplines. All I want is for the kid to stop crying and screaming. Soothe the kid, give him caramel to stick his teeth together, stuff his mouth with cotton...just get him quiet.

Agreed, and well said, CW.

[jane_says]

Awww, now. I have to respectfully disagree, CW. I didn't say ALL her posts were contrary and assholish. What I said was she seems to disagree as often as she can. Think of it in terms of "all you can eat" vs. "all it is possible to eat". Everyone has to give it a rest occasionally.

And I agree, it's possible that some folks might find a screeching kid more annoying than a barking dog. Humans are hardwired to respond to a crying baby; that's how they get attention and thus survive. It wouldn't do much good to have a soothing, low-toned chime go off when a baby needs something. It's also possible that some people find a grown adult who's supposed to have some sense bitching about children making noise, which is what their supposed to do, extremely irritating.

It's not possible to avoid children unless you stay home - that is a fact. You're going to see brats sometimes outside when you're getting into the car, when you're in the grocery store, at the bank, at 99% of other places we all have to go. Like I said about the stinky guy, the tacky dressers, and other people I find distasteful, it's impossible to avoid. Sure, you can go to the bar and not see them while you're there, but that doesn't mean you won't have to stand in line behind them and their parents at the ATM before you get there. They're everywhere, unless you're a hermit with home food delivery who never requires medical treatment, you're going to be "exposed" to them.

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by jane_says

It's not possible to avoid children unless you stay home - that is a fact.

I dunno...unless I have really super child-avoiding luck, it's possible. It's not very often I get into a situation where there's a screaming child and I'm out and about as much as the next person. The only times I run into kids screaming unattended or (in my opinion) poorly-attended are in open places where a lower noise level isn't encouraged...like a grocery store. In my local library on the other hand, kids are promptly taken out or asked to be removed from the building. I rarely see small children brought into banks and when they are they're quiet or they're better encouraged to hush than they'd be in a grocery store. Maybe I just have some kind of luck avoiding the Crying Child. Maybe some people have a better time of it than others.

Sure, the human animal is hardwired to respond to a crying child, but it still doesn't mean I have to like it or want to hear it. Humans are hardwired to simply have children, but it doesn't mean everyone has to like the idea. I probably should have added that I have little problem with a crying child if it's a relative of mine or the child of a friend. I'm sure if I have a child, its cries won't bother me so much either. Or, if it's a crying child because he's lost or abandoned, I can put my pet peeve aside. It's the strange children that get on my nerves.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by jane_says

I didn't say ALL her posts were contrary and assholish. What I said was she seems to disagree as often as she can.

Well, technically, if, like you say, I try to disagree as often as possible, I'm sure I could find something to disagree about in every single post on this forum. If you'd read any of my other posts before ripping my head off, you would have logically come to that conclusion as well. And BTW, people (like you) tend to complain about traits in others that they see in themselves that really bother them. I've noticed your posts often tend to be hostile, biting and just plain rude in some cases, but do I choose to single you out and whine about it? No, I just ignore your silly posts. Like I will do in the future.

Originally Posted by jane_says

It's not possible to avoid children unless you stay home - that is a fact.

Uhhh, wrong again. In fact, I had a lovely dinner out with my boyfriend on Saturday night. We went to a nice restaurant, and there was not a child in the place. Would I have minded if there was? No, not if they were behaving themselves. We are leaving for vacation on Saturday to the Caribbean, at an adults-only resort. Will there be children there? Of course not. So I'll go about my life, and you can go about yours, changing poopy diapers and listening to the screeching of children, the sound you seem to love so much. I'll have a nice frosty tropical drink on the beach for you. Maybe two.

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by garnet

... If you'd read any of my other posts before ripping my head off,

take your own advice, and read and understand whose posting what before you pipe up there, lassie. MY kid's the one's who's biting, and frankly, case and perth sound like EXCELLENT parents to me, from the limited amount i've been exposed to them here in the last couple years. <-- not a typo. it's a good thing you aren't having kids yet, because it seems to me you need to develop your sense of patience, understanding, and ability to see things from other peoples points of view a whole lot more yet before you procreate.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by LabRat

take your own advice, and read and understand whose posting what before you pipe up there, lassie. MY kid's the one's who's biting

Actually, it's YOU that needs to go back and read the posts. Perth also mentioned in this thread that his son bites, too. If you would like me to post a link to that, I'd be happy to do so. Please be more careful before you start slingin' the mud, OK, honey?

Originally Posted by LabRat

it's a good thing you aren't having kids yet, because it seems to me you need to develop your sense of patience, understanding, and ability to see things from other peoples points of view a whole lot more yet before you procreate.

Don't worry, I won't be doing any procreating--I'll leave that up to the "experts" like you. Funny, it's the parents who posted here that immediately flipped out and started swearing and name-calling. To me, that spells a lack of patience and and anger issues. Are the kids wearing you guys a little thin, maybe? Maybe that's something to think about.

[perth]

How is it going Labrat? Have you found things getting better? Tried anything different?