Brave New World,...at the bank. - Page 2

Cyber Wolf · 10-12-2004, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russotto

Most banks charge a fee and many require a fingerprint even to cash a check drawn on themselves, if the check is cashed by a non-accountholder. That's obnoxious.

Perhaps, but I'm sure the inconvenience helps to deter some fraud. Years ago, my mom sent me to her bank to get some checks cashed and they gave me the hardest time. I was 17 at the time and I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but they eventually ended up calling the phone number on the account on the check, asking if she had a daughter and me providing ID to check with what my mom told them. Pain in the kiester at the time, but it showed her bank didn't play around when it came to people wanting cash off checks.

slang · 10-12-2004, 05:27 PM

For some reason, I'm having the feeling that the bank walls are closing in on me.

russotto · 10-13-2004, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf

Perhaps, but I'm sure the inconvenience helps to deter some fraud. Years ago, my mom sent me to her bank to get some checks cashed and they gave me the hardest time. I was 17 at the time and I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but they eventually ended up calling the phone number on the account on the check, asking if she had a daughter and me providing ID to check with what my mom told them. Pain in the kiester at the time, but it showed her bank didn't play around when it came to people wanting cash off checks.

An endorsed check is supposed to be a negotiable bearer instrument. You're not supposed to have to prove who you are to cash one on the bank it's drawn on. As long as the endorsement matches the signature on record, the bank should honor the check.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-13-2004, 05:34 PM

If you have a valid check drawn on that bank made out to John Jones, and you have ID that proves you're John Jones, they should cash the check even though they don't know if you're THE John Jones the check was made out to.
And you should not pay any fee.

wolf · 10-13-2004, 09:58 PM

I have had an account at the same bank for an extremely long time.

My signature on my signature card is that of a ... much younger person.

Also one who did not need to have an extraordinarily illegible signature for business purposes (My mental health warrants can be identified by my supervisor, and other coworkers as being mine, but patients, who receive a copy of their petitions, would be hard pressed to figure out my first name, much less my last.)

A graphologist would likely be able to find simliarities in the first and last initials, and the ending flourish on the terminal letter of my last name, but one of these things does not look like the other ...

I have never been questioned as to either endorsements on any checks I have presented at the bank for cashing, or with respect to any personal checks I have written and signed.

Oh, and Slang, that's what the mattress is for.

No bank. Bank bad. Get green, buy precious metals, firearms, ammo, and whiskey. Bury in yard for a (black) rainy day.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-30-2004, 08:26 PM

My first bank statement under this law.
I wrote check 707 to AT&T. The statement show a sequence break between 706 and 708. Listed under “other withdrawals” is AT&T Consumer Checkpaymt 0707, but no cancelled check and no “substitute check”.

At the bank, the woman starts to explain “Check21” but I convinced her I was familiar with it......chapter and verse. She agreed I should have gotten something with the statement and called the bank’s central brain trust. They told her in order to issue a “substitute check” they need a facsimile from AT&T but they've not returned my, or anybody else’s info. Zip, nada, nothing.

Even so the bank is required by law to honor the demand from AT&T for payment.

I’m no longer with AT&T.

Elspode · 11-30-2004, 09:28 PM

So now businesses can take your money and leave no record?

Well, heck, Dubya. That ought to be good for the economy!

wolf · 12-01-2004, 12:18 AM

I think Citibank does the same thing ... converts paperchecks into data.

russotto · 12-03-2004, 08:08 PM

If the bank has enough information to charge your account, they should have enough information to create a substitute check. I think it might be your bank rather than AT&T that is screwing up. What's happened is the check has been "truncated":

(18) TRUNCATE.—The term ‘‘truncate’’ means to remove
an original paper check from the check collection or return
process and send to a recipient, in lieu of such original paper
check, a substitute check or, by agreement, information relating
to the original check (including data taken from the MICR
line of the original check or an electronic image of the original
check), whether with or without subsequent delivery of the
original paper check.

(note the "by agreement")

If the bank can't produce the original check or a substitute and you dispute the charge, they're going to have a hard time of it (under older law, not Check 21-- Check 21 would only help them if they DID have the substitute)

xoxoxoBruce · 12-04-2004, 10:05 PM

What is a substitute check?
A substitute check is a special paper copy of the front and back of an original check. The substitute check may be slightly larger than the original check. Substitute checks are specially formatted so they can be processed as if they were original checks. The front of a substitute check should state: "This is a legal copy of your check. You can use it the same way you would use the original check." The following sample shows what a substitute check looks like.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-04-2004, 10:09 PM

Not all copies of a check are substitute checks. For example, pictures of multiple checks printed on a page (also known as an image statement) that is returned to you with your monthly statement are not substitute checks. Online check images and photocopies of original checks are not substitute checks either. You can use image statements and other copies of checks to verify that your bank has paid a check.

16. Can I still get my canceled checks back?
If you get your canceled checks back with your account statements today, you will continue to receive canceled checks unless your bank notifies you otherwise. The only difference will be that some of the canceled checks that you receive may be substitute checks. You can use a substitute check the same way you would use an original check, such as for recordkeeping and proof-of-payment purposes.

10-13-2004, 05:34 PM	#19
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	If you have a valid check drawn on that bank made out to John Jones, and you have ID that proves you're John Jones, they should cash the check even though they don't know if you're THE John Jones the check was made out to. And you should not pay any fee. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-13-2004, 09:58 PM	#20
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I have had an account at the same bank for an extremely long time. My signature on my signature card is that of a ... much younger person. Also one who did not need to have an extraordinarily illegible signature for business purposes (My mental health warrants can be identified by my supervisor, and other coworkers as being mine, but patients, who receive a copy of their petitions, would be hard pressed to figure out my first name, much less my last.) A graphologist would likely be able to find simliarities in the first and last initials, and the ending flourish on the terminal letter of my last name, but one of these things does not look like the other ... I have never been questioned as to either endorsements on any checks I have presented at the bank for cashing, or with respect to any personal checks I have written and signed. Oh, and Slang, that's what the mattress is for. No bank. Bank bad. Get green, buy precious metals, firearms, ammo, and whiskey. Bury in yard for a (black) rainy day. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-30-2004, 08:26 PM	#21
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	My first bank statement under this law. I wrote check 707 to AT&T. The statement show a sequence break between 706 and 708. Listed under “other withdrawals” is AT&T Consumer Checkpaymt 0707, but no cancelled check and no “substitute check”. At the bank, the woman starts to explain “Check21” but I convinced her I was familiar with it......chapter and verse. She agreed I should have gotten something with the statement and called the bank’s central brain trust. They told her in order to issue a “substitute check” they need a facsimile from AT&T but they've not returned my, or anybody else’s info. Zip, nada, nothing. Even so the bank is required by law to honor the demand from AT&T for payment. I’m no longer with AT&T. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

11-30-2004, 09:28 PM	#22
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	So now businesses can take your money and leave no record? Well, heck, Dubya. That ought to be good for the economy! __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

12-01-2004, 12:18 AM	#23
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I think Citibank does the same thing ... converts paperchecks into data. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-12-2004, 05:27 PM	#17
slang St Petersburg, Florida Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,423	For some reason, I'm having the feeling that the bank walls are closing in on me.

12-03-2004, 08:08 PM	#24
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	If the bank has enough information to charge your account, they should have enough information to create a substitute check. I think it might be your bank rather than AT&T that is screwing up. What's happened is the check has been "truncated": (18) TRUNCATE.—The term ‘‘truncate’’ means to remove an original paper check from the check collection or return process and send to a recipient, in lieu of such original paper check, a substitute check or, by agreement, information relating to the original check (including data taken from the MICR line of the original check or an electronic image of the original check), whether with or without subsequent delivery of the original paper check. (note the "by agreement") If the bank can't produce the original check or a substitute and you dispute the charge, they're going to have a hard time of it (under older law, not Check 21-- Check 21 would only help them if they DID have the substitute)

12-04-2004, 10:05 PM	#25
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	What is a substitute check? A substitute check is a special paper copy of the front and back of an original check. The substitute check may be slightly larger than the original check. Substitute checks are specially formatted so they can be processed as if they were original checks. The front of a substitute check should state: "This is a legal copy of your check. You can use it the same way you would use the original check." The following sample shows what a substitute check looks like. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. Last edited by xoxoxoBruce; 04-07-2007 at 05:58 PM.

12-04-2004, 10:09 PM	#26
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Not all copies of a check are substitute checks. For example, pictures of multiple checks printed on a page (also known as an image statement) that is returned to you with your monthly statement are not substitute checks. Online check images and photocopies of original checks are not substitute checks either. You can use image statements and other copies of checks to verify that your bank has paid a check. 16. Can I still get my canceled checks back? If you get your canceled checks back with your account statements today, you will continue to receive canceled checks unless your bank notifies you otherwise. The only difference will be that some of the canceled checks that you receive may be substitute checks. You can use a substitute check the same way you would use an original check, such as for recordkeeping and proof-of-payment purposes. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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