Still Undecided? - Page 2

elSicomoro · 10-29-2004, 07:04 PM

Remember that game last year right after his dad died? Change the circumstances some and repeat.

Clodfobble · 10-29-2004, 08:37 PM

Sorry to drag this back to the topic, but I'd be willing to be one of the reasons there are so many so-called "undecided" voters is because people don't want to talk to pollsters.

It's the same reason that there are way fewer signs out this election than normal (at least in my area)--both sides feel very strongly about things, and admitting who you're for could expose you to at best a glare and at worst a keyed car or lawn vandalism. Saying "I'm undecided" is a quick way to get someone out of your face.

Undertoad · 10-30-2004, 08:28 AM

Yabbut at least one of the polls (Survey USA?) is completely phone-automated - as in, press 1 for Bush, 2 for Kerry, 3 for Nader, 4 for Undecided.

Which is also going to lead to some bias that they think they can factor out.

Griff · 10-30-2004, 08:41 AM

I was push polled by a teachers union I was once affiliated with. The options were minimal and naturally Mike wasn't one of them. I suppose I could count as an undecided between Kerry and Badnarik. I really don't see myself voting for someone who voted for the war or the Patriot Act though. Saw F-911 last night. The most effective parts were the scenes of Iraqis living life before the war, the civilian casualties, the American amputees, and the dead GIs mother.

elSicomoro · 10-30-2004, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

I really don't see myself voting for someone who voted for the war or the Patriot Act though.

Sen. Robert Byrd was on Fresh Air not too long ago. When Terry Gross asked him about the Patriot Act, he basically said that he regretted supporting it, saying that Congress felt pressure to do something right away in the wake of 9/11, and voila.

Not all of the act is bad, but it definitely needs to be fixed...and I think Kerry--along with the Dems and true conservatives--will fix it.

I think that Kerry is a good candidate, but let's break it down to the simplest of questions: Do you want 4 more years of Bush? Can Kerry do any worse than Bush?

Happy Monkey · 10-30-2004, 09:48 AM

Standard political idiocy: Something must be done. This is something. Therefore this must be done.

elSicomoro · 10-30-2004, 09:59 AM

???

Griff · 10-30-2004, 10:04 AM

So an historical analogy would be voting for the Communists to keep the Nazis out of power?

Happy Monkey · 10-30-2004, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

he basically said that he regretted supporting it, saying that Congress felt pressure to do something right away in the wake of 9/11, and voila.

They didn't even bother reading it. It was something, something had to be voted on, so they voted for it.

Griff · 10-30-2004, 10:06 AM

Ooops thought you meant us not Congress.

elSicomoro · 10-30-2004, 10:28 AM

That's what I thought, too.

I don't know if I'd go that far with the analogy, man.

But here's another simple question: Do you want the legislative and executive branches of government to remain joined at the hip?

HM, you're right...it was incredibly stupid of our Congress to do such a thing. At least some of them are willing to admit it was stupid now.

10-30-2004, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

So an historical analogy would be voting for the Communists to keep the Nazis out of power?

Hmmm... I suppose you could look at it that way.

You have to remember, though, that Hitler siezed power in the early 30's before the communists really got their bad rep. Who knows what a German democratically elected communist government would have been like? Without Hitler, Germany might have become an early version of Sweden today.

Undertoad · 10-30-2004, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Yabbut at least one of the polls (Survey USA?) is completely phone-automated - as in, press 1 for Bush, 2 for Kerry, 3 for Nader, 4 for Undecided.

Which is also going to lead to some bias that they think they can factor out.

Mickey Kaus wonders whether voters would be embarrassed to admit to a Kerry vote to a live pollster. Mystery Pollster says

Quote:

I think Kaus is on to something when he wonders about an "embarrassment" factor that might limit Kerry more on telephone surveys but not on automated, recorded interviews like those done by SurveyUSA and Rasmussen. I think I see evidence of this in the polls by SurveyUSA in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan. In each of those states, SUSA has Bush matching the RealClearPolitics average but has Kerry running a few points higher. Their surveys always show a higher undecided than most other surveys, and Jay Leve, SurveyUSA's director has always speculated it is because their recorded interview better simulates the solitary experience the voting booth. At the same time, I see an opposite pattern in Iowa, Missouri and Colorado - so perhaps I'm just data mining. I want to watch this closely over the weekend.

Griff · 10-30-2004, 04:24 PM

I think the newly registered voters are going to make the polsters look bad.

"seized" is kinda strong isn't it? He used the tools available just like next week when Bush and Kerry are in several state courts around the country.

Cyber Wolf · 10-30-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Yabbut at least one of the polls (Survey USA?) is completely phone-automated - as in, press 1 for Bush, 2 for Kerry, 3 for Nader, 4 for Undecided.

Waitwaitwait...so if you're rooting for Badnarik, what do you do? Do you hit undecided even though you HAVE decided? That don't smell right.

10-30-2004, 08:41 AM	#19
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I was push polled by a teachers union I was once affiliated with. The options were minimal and naturally Mike wasn't one of them. I suppose I could count as an undecided between Kerry and Badnarik. I really don't see myself voting for someone who voted for the war or the Patriot Act though. Saw F-911 last night. The most effective parts were the scenes of Iraqis living life before the war, the civilian casualties, the American amputees, and the dead GIs mother. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-30-2004, 09:48 AM	#21
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Standard political idiocy: Something must be done. This is something. Therefore this must be done. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

10-30-2004, 10:04 AM	#23
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	So an historical analogy would be voting for the Communists to keep the Nazis out of power? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-30-2004, 10:06 AM	#25
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Ooops thought you meant us not Congress. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-30-2004, 04:24 PM	#29
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I think the newly registered voters are going to make the polsters look bad. "seized" is kinda strong isn't it? He used the tools available just like next week when Bush and Kerry are in several state courts around the country. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-29-2004, 07:04 PM	#16
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Remember that game last year right after his dad died? Change the circumstances some and repeat.

10-29-2004, 08:37 PM	#17
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Sorry to drag this back to the topic, but I'd be willing to be one of the reasons there are so many so-called "undecided" voters is because people don't want to talk to pollsters. It's the same reason that there are way fewer signs out this election than normal (at least in my area)--both sides feel very strongly about things, and admitting who you're for could expose you to at best a glare and at worst a keyed car or lawn vandalism. Saying "I'm undecided" is a quick way to get someone out of your face.

10-30-2004, 08:28 AM	#18
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Yabbut at least one of the polls (Survey USA?) is completely phone-automated - as in, press 1 for Bush, 2 for Kerry, 3 for Nader, 4 for Undecided. Which is also going to lead to some bias that they think they can factor out.

10-30-2004, 09:59 AM	#22
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	???

10-30-2004, 10:28 AM	#26
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	That's what I thought, too. I don't know if I'd go that far with the analogy, man. But here's another simple question: Do you want the legislative and executive branches of government to remain joined at the hip? HM, you're right...it was incredibly stupid of our Congress to do such a thing. At least some of them are willing to admit it was stupid now.

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