Creationism: from the US, with love - Page 2

Beestie · 03-10-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Why can't they leave origins out of school altogether?

You can learn how a cell works without speculating on how it first appeared on the planet. You don't have to teach origins to convert one mole of an element to another. Don't need origins to teach math.

Leave origins out of the school completely, I say.

Excellent point. Excellent suggestion. I never even thought to ask that question.

Happy Monkey · 03-10-2005, 11:34 AM

They don't teach about what happened before the Big Bang, because that's the point before which supported theory becomes idle speculation. So you could say that origins ARE left out, at the point where they cease to be science.

To make creationists happy, we'd have to leave everything out of the science book that takes more than a few thousand years.

Troubleshooter · 03-10-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

Excellent point. Excellent suggestion. I never even thought to ask that question.

Because you can still teach evolution while leaving out origins, that's why.

The fundies would pop a blood vessel if that compromise ever made it through.

Clodfobble · 03-10-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

To make creationists happy, we'd have to leave everything out of the science book that takes more than a few thousand years.

Exactly. You can't say light from a star six billion light-years away is six billion years old, you can't say that the rock strata in the Grand Canyon shows tens of thousands of years of layers, you can't say the sea-floor shows that the Earth's polarity has switched several times over the last million years... It's not just origins of life, it's a strict time-limit on everything.

jaguar · 03-10-2005, 12:44 PM

Next they'll be calling on toy stores to stop carrying dino toys, they are clearly an tool of the evil liberal evo-fascist conspiricy.

Happy Monkey · 03-10-2005, 12:56 PM

No, dinosaurs were obviously dragons!

OnyxCougar · 03-10-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

Because you can still teach evolution while leaving out origins, that's why.

The fundies would pop a blood vessel if that compromise ever made it through.

You can teach mutation and speciation without origins, yes.

OnyxCougar · 03-10-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Exactly. You can't say light from a star six billion light-years away is six billion years old, you can't say that the rock strata in the Grand Canyon shows tens of thousands of years of layers, you can't say the sea-floor shows that the Earth's polarity has switched several times over the last million years... It's not just origins of life, it's a strict time-limit on everything.

Well, that's true. It's mostly about origin of life, but you're right, it has it's theoretical little threads throughout real science.

Even though it's been scientifically proven that striations in the ground in grand canyon like formations can be made in as little as 20 years (and the rocks made therein are dated as "millions of years old". Whatever.

But that's a different thread.

And BTW...Creationists believe in dinosaurs....

jaguar · 03-10-2005, 01:41 PM

Ye gods it gets worse. Sometimes I wonder if we'll see a new gallileo my lifetime. At this rate you have to wonder.

Happy Monkey · 03-10-2005, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Even though it's been scientifically proven that striations in the ground in grand canyon like formations can be made in as little as 20 years

Of course you can make a striation of dirt in 20 years What takes a long time is for it to become stone.

dar512 · 03-10-2005, 03:20 PM

FWIW, I attended Seattle Pacific University to get my computer science degree. This is a Methodist university that requires a bible course (OT or NT) to graduate. I took the OT course by Hobson's choice.

The professor (a doctor in theology) flatly stated that the OT cannot be treated as a history book. The OT, in his words, is "useful for instruction".

Troubleshooter · 03-10-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

You can teach mutation and speciation without origins, yes.

Which are part of evolution, and thus evolution is being taught and the hopping fundies won't stand still for it.

Troubleshooter · 03-10-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

And BTW...Creationists believe in dinosaurs....

We've already established the biblical scale gullibility of creationists. Do we really need to cover that ground again?

Catwoman · 03-14-2005, 09:08 AM

RE should cover things like:

- How and why religion causes major sects of the world's population to blow each others arms off
- How one man's storybook changed the world
- Why it is ok for a religion to be contradictory if it suits ones aims
- Why Christianity through Calvinsim formed Capitalism that would overtake the Western World at the expense of, well, the rest of the world
- Why one should help thy neighbour but not thy too far away or different coloured neighbours
- Einstein vs Jesus: Einstein discovered something that was there anyway. Some reports, widely mistranslated, say that Jesus made water into wine. Why Jesus wins.

DanaC · 03-14-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Ye gods it gets worse. Sometimes I wonder if we'll see a new gallileo my lifetime. At this rate you have to wonder.

Maybe we should stop teaching children biology and science altogether....just tell them a bunch of parables and let them work out their own understanding of the world.....in fact maybe we should ditch modern medicine as well while we're at it and revert to the Four Humours. I hear there are some doctors doing some wonderful work with leeches and mercury

03-10-2005, 11:34 AM	#17
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	They don't teach about what happened before the Big Bang, because that's the point before which supported theory becomes idle speculation. So you could say that origins ARE left out, at the point where they cease to be science. To make creationists happy, we'd have to leave everything out of the science book that takes more than a few thousand years. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-10-2005, 12:44 PM	#20
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Next they'll be calling on toy stores to stop carrying dino toys, they are clearly an tool of the evil liberal evo-fascist conspiricy. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-10-2005, 12:56 PM	#21
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	No, dinosaurs were obviously dragons! __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-10-2005, 01:41 PM	#24
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Ye gods it gets worse. Sometimes I wonder if we'll see a new gallileo my lifetime. At this rate you have to wonder. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-10-2005, 03:20 PM	#26
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	FWIW, I attended Seattle Pacific University to get my computer science degree. This is a Methodist university that requires a bible course (OT or NT) to graduate. I took the OT course by Hobson's choice. The professor (a doctor in theology) flatly stated that the OT cannot be treated as a history book. The OT, in his words, is "useful for instruction". __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

03-14-2005, 09:08 AM	#29
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	RE should cover things like: - How and why religion causes major sects of the world's population to blow each others arms off - How one man's storybook changed the world - Why it is ok for a religion to be contradictory if it suits ones aims - Why Christianity through Calvinsim formed Capitalism that would overtake the Western World at the expense of, well, the rest of the world - Why one should help thy neighbour but not thy too far away or different coloured neighbours - Einstein vs Jesus: Einstein discovered something that was there anyway. Some reports, widely mistranslated, say that Jesus made water into wine. Why Jesus wins. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

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