Learning Natural Languages - Page 2

staceyv · 10-23-2005, 10:13 AM

It would really help you a lot to be able to talk to a native speaker that also speaks english.
I taught myself russian for a full year. I would learn things in books or on cd and then try to say them to my husband. Sometimes he would almost cry because he was laughing so hard. Even slight variations in pronounciation can make "I'd like to sit" sound like "I'd like a tit"- know what I mean?

Tonchi · 10-23-2005, 11:17 PM

....or like in Spanish, where we have had some doozies on our board courtesy of Alta Vista.

año = year
ano = anus

A sentence meaning "he is 20 years old" comes out as "he has 20 anuses"

We have had even worse than that. The words for frown and breast are very similar too, with predictable results.

BigV · 10-24-2005, 11:35 AM

How can breasts make you frown?

Tonchi · 10-24-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

How can breasts make you frown?

Take the Spanish sentence which should be translated to "He had a big frown on his face." Get the picture?

BigV · 10-25-2005, 12:08 AM

If I had a big breast on my (otherwise undeformed but extremely happy) face, any indication that I had a frown would definitely be an error in translation.

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-25-2005, 06:05 AM

Or the first-year-student type error in Spanish of forgetting that "pedir" -- to order, is an -ir class verb, and conjugating in like an -ar class verb.

This gets you "pedar" -- to fart. Hell of a way to try and get a vermouth from a waiter, as he'll be doubled over laughing and quite incapable of going for your vermouth.

You have to be careful the same way in Russian, with writing and with pissing. Use the wrong conjugation (pisat' is irregular in the present tense, piset' is sort-of regular) with regard to getting a letter written, and the usual comment is that the envelope corners must have hurt terribly, and how did you get the stamp to stick?

French got 'em too: I heard tell of a guy in search of thumbtacks in a stationery store ask where he might find the prostitutes. Punaises, putaines... yeah, I can see it.

Though for severe operator malfunction in French, it's hard to beat the chorus of "Lady Marmalade." The correct answer to the question it poses is, "Not until you master a better grade of French, sweetie." That sentence was written by some first-year student (and a bad one) of the language who didn't know that Frenchmen put themselves to bed with a reflexive form of the verb coucher and who did not recall that addressing someone by the formal vous is as out of place as can be imagined for inviting somebody to jump in the sack with you. Who was Lady Marmalade bedding, the king of France? The worst pity of it is that a grammatical French sentence could have scanned: Veux-tu te coucher chez moi, ce soir?...

wolf · 10-25-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Veux-tu te coucher chez moi, ce soir?...

I don't know any French more complex that "merde," but I do know you can't sing that as well as the original version.

Tonchi · 10-25-2005, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Or the first-year-student type error in Spanish of forgetting that "pedir" -- to order, is an -ir class verb, and conjugating in like an -ar class verb.

This gets you "pedar" -- to fart. Hell of a way to try and get a vermouth from a waiter, as he'll be doubled over laughing and quite incapable of going for your vermouth.

The one that put me into hysterics was the cargar/cagar substitution by students who don't read all the letters. And then the girl asking someone to carry her books....

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-26-2005, 02:47 AM

Just use a longer note, about a quarter-note or a dotted quarter, on the second syllable of "coucher" and it falls into place.

OnyxCougar · 10-28-2005, 06:54 AM

My maternal grandmother's parents were both Czech, from a city on the Polish border called Ostrava. My grandmother was the baby of 6 children, the first 3 of which were born in Ostrava. My great-grandpa came over on a boat with his best friend and is registered through ellis island, stayed with his friend's uncle in new york for a little over 3 years, then my great-gramma came over with the 3 kids (also through ellis island), and they all moved to oklahoma, where the last 3 were born.

I have never studied Czech, but I have self studied Hebrew, Esperanto, Russian, Spanish, and Croatian, which is in the same family as Russian and Czech. I started learning Croatian because I was planning a trip there, and some internet friends of mine lived there, and taught me the written part of the language. Luckily, Croatian is a language that is pronounced exactly as it's spelled, so making the transistion between written and verbal is pretty easy (if the speaker talks slowly).

I started off by going into a croatian chat room (IRC) and just logging a half hour of material, then looking things up on an online dictionary. Most of the content on the IRC is slang, so won't be found, but it does give you a feel of how people really use the language. Most of them knew English, so when I explained what I was doing there, they were most helpful, although some made rude comments, thinking I didn't understand what they were saying.

Then I went to Voice of America online, which has news in a LOT of different languages (and IIRC, Czech is one of them). Also, I went to google in Croatian, and found news sites and (at the time) had Kazaa, and found songs, both traditional folk in nature, and contemporary. (The Divas are a great band!) Croatian streaming radio is also a resource, but they talk FAST and I can only get a few words per sentence.

Also, reading in the language is essential, I have a copy of the Two Towers by Tolkien, (but it's in Serbian, which is similar, but enough different that it only screwing me up). If you can find a book in Czech that you already have in English, it's a marvelous resource for vocabulary and grammar.

OnyxCougar · 10-28-2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Though for severe operator malfunction in French, it's hard to beat the chorus of "Lady Marmalade." The correct answer to the question it poses is, "Not until you master a better grade of French, sweetie." That sentence was written by some first-year student (and a bad one) of the language who didn't know that Frenchmen put themselves to bed with a reflexive form of the verb coucher and who did not recall that addressing someone by the formal vous is as out of place as can be imagined for inviting somebody to jump in the sack with you. Who was Lady Marmalade bedding, the king of France? The worst pity of it is that a grammatical French sentence could have scanned: Veux-tu te coucher chez moi, ce soir?...

It isn't the first time grammar has been sacrificed for a song lyric, nor was it the last... and that's ok... I live in the south, were you eat skrimps on the skreet in cun-ee-tah (spelled properly Conetoe).

10-23-2005, 11:17 PM	#17
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	....or like in Spanish, where we have had some doozies on our board courtesy of Alta Vista. año = year ano = anus A sentence meaning "he is 20 years old" comes out as "he has 20 anuses" We have had even worse than that. The words for frown and breast are very similar too, with predictable results. __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

10-24-2005, 11:35 AM	#18
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	How can breasts make you frown? __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

10-25-2005, 12:08 AM	#20
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	If I had a big breast on my (otherwise undeformed but extremely happy) face, any indication that I had a frown would definitely be an error in translation. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

10-25-2005, 06:05 AM	#21
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Or the first-year-student type error in Spanish of forgetting that "pedir" -- to order, is an -ir class verb, and conjugating in like an -ar class verb. This gets you "pedar" -- to fart. Hell of a way to try and get a vermouth from a waiter, as he'll be doubled over laughing and quite incapable of going for your vermouth. You have to be careful the same way in Russian, with writing and with pissing. Use the wrong conjugation (pisat' is irregular in the present tense, piset' is sort-of regular) with regard to getting a letter written, and the usual comment is that the envelope corners must have hurt terribly, and how did you get the stamp to stick? French got 'em too: I heard tell of a guy in search of thumbtacks in a stationery store ask where he might find the prostitutes. Punaises, putaines... yeah, I can see it. Though for severe operator malfunction in French, it's hard to beat the chorus of "Lady Marmalade." The correct answer to the question it poses is, "Not until you master a better grade of French, sweetie." That sentence was written by some first-year student (and a bad one) of the language who didn't know that Frenchmen put themselves to bed with a reflexive form of the verb coucher and who did not recall that addressing someone by the formal vous is as out of place as can be imagined for inviting somebody to jump in the sack with you. Who was Lady Marmalade bedding, the king of France? The worst pity of it is that a grammatical French sentence could have scanned: Veux-tu te coucher chez moi, ce soir?... __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 10-25-2005 at 06:12 AM.

10-26-2005, 02:47 AM	#24
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Just use a longer note, about a quarter-note or a dotted quarter, on the second syllable of "coucher" and it falls into place. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 10-26-2005 at 02:50 AM.

10-23-2005, 10:13 AM	#16
staceyv Lecturer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 927	It would really help you a lot to be able to talk to a native speaker that also speaks english. I taught myself russian for a full year. I would learn things in books or on cd and then try to say them to my husband. Sometimes he would almost cry because he was laughing so hard. Even slight variations in pronounciation can make "I'd like to sit" sound like "I'd like a tit"- know what I mean?

10-28-2005, 06:54 AM	#25
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	My maternal grandmother's parents were both Czech, from a city on the Polish border called Ostrava. My grandmother was the baby of 6 children, the first 3 of which were born in Ostrava. My great-grandpa came over on a boat with his best friend and is registered through ellis island, stayed with his friend's uncle in new york for a little over 3 years, then my great-gramma came over with the 3 kids (also through ellis island), and they all moved to oklahoma, where the last 3 were born. I have never studied Czech, but I have self studied Hebrew, Esperanto, Russian, Spanish, and Croatian, which is in the same family as Russian and Czech. I started learning Croatian because I was planning a trip there, and some internet friends of mine lived there, and taught me the written part of the language. Luckily, Croatian is a language that is pronounced exactly as it's spelled, so making the transistion between written and verbal is pretty easy (if the speaker talks slowly). I started off by going into a croatian chat room (IRC) and just logging a half hour of material, then looking things up on an online dictionary. Most of the content on the IRC is slang, so won't be found, but it does give you a feel of how people really use the language. Most of them knew English, so when I explained what I was doing there, they were most helpful, although some made rude comments, thinking I didn't understand what they were saying. Then I went to Voice of America online, which has news in a LOT of different languages (and IIRC, Czech is one of them). Also, I went to google in Croatian, and found news sites and (at the time) had Kazaa, and found songs, both traditional folk in nature, and contemporary. (The Divas are a great band!) Croatian streaming radio is also a resource, but they talk FAST and I can only get a few words per sentence. Also, reading in the language is essential, I have a copy of the Two Towers by Tolkien, (but it's in Serbian, which is similar, but enough different that it only screwing me up). If you can find a book in Czech that you already have in English, it's a marvelous resource for vocabulary and grammar. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

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