Terri Schiavo's Parents Seek Divorce on Her Behalf

[OnyxCougar]

If you choose DNR, and the medical staff DNR, that's not murder. That's (1) letting nature take it's course and (2) Your legal and binding wishes.

To answer your question:

If she didn't want to be kept alive in PVR, AND SHE HAS DOCUMENTATION TO THAT EFFECT, no problem.

But that's not what happened, Tony.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Have you ever heard ANYBODY EVER say they wanted to be kept as a veg?

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Have you ever heard ANYBODY EVER say they wanted to be kept as a veg?

I've heard people say that regardless of their physical state, if they can be kept alive, they want to be.

Is that the same thing?

[BigV]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I've heard people say that regardless of their physical state, if they can be kept alive, they want to be.

Is that the same thing?

I heard somewhere that Ted Williams is being kept as a vegetable.






In the frozen section.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I've heard people say that regardless of their physical state, if they can be kept alive, they want to be.

Is that the same thing?

You're one up on me, every single person I've ever talked to about this said no. If they were in a condition where they would never leave that bed, pull the plug. In fact, it was usually Pleeeeeease pull the plug.
I feel anyone that would want to be tended like potted plant is just selfish or at least too stupid to realize the strain they put on everyone else to no end.

[Troubleshooter]

For myself, I'd want to to have a window of say a month to allow for testing and hypothesis. After that, without a plan, pull it.

[Undertoad]

You are in the hospital, you are killed.

<pre>
You are a vegetable You are conscious
+-------------------------+--------------------+
|1 |2 |
You said you wanted to live | Murder | Murder |
| | |
+-------------------------+--------------------+
|3 |4 |
You said you wanted to die | ??? | Murder* |
| | |
+-------------------------+--------------------+
</pre>

I guess it depends on what you call case #4. If you call it assisted suicide then I guess case #3 is not murder.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

You are in the hospital, you are killed.

<pre>
You are a vegetable You are conscious
+-------------------------+--------------------+
|1 |2 |
You said you wanted to live | Murder | Murder |
| | |
+-------------------------+--------------------+
|3 |4 |
You said you wanted to die | ??? | Murder* |
| | |
+-------------------------+--------------------+
</pre>

I guess it depends on what you call case #4. If you call it assisted suicide then I guess case #3 is not murder.

Legally, according to the law I just posted, it is not. A hospital can pull the plug on a patient after 10 days if the patients fall into certain categories. Courts can intervene, but the law gives the presumption of termination rights to the hospital unless the guardian can find someplace else to take the patient. This basically means prove to another hospital that the patient can be financially supported and that they won't be left holding the bag.

You can call it murder. You can also call buckets of fried chicken and real fur murder, but in the eyes of the law, it is not.

Example - The Ten Commandments say 'Thou Shalt Not Kill', and yet we have killing in spite of the Ten Commandments and even killing in support of the Ten Commandments.

[OnyxCougar]

I suppose the difference for me is this:

If you said you wanted to live and they couldn't keep you alive: death by (whatever killed you)
If you said you wanted to live and they wouldn't keep you alive (but they could have): murder
If you said you wanted to die and they DNR - death by (whatever killed you)

If you said you wanted to live and they keep you on machines: following your wishes.
If you said you wanted to die and they keep you on machines: illegal

Does that make sense to anybody but me?

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

...

Surprisingly lucid actually.

[OnyxCougar]

What is this new thing I'm hearing about an email that's screwing up the Republican party?

[wolf]

I haven't gotten it yet. At least I don't think so. Maybe my spam folder ate it.

[OnyxCougar]

They have CNN on here at work, and interspersed with the Pope stuff I'm reading the closed captioning about an email that is messing up the republican party and a staffers been fired...

nothing on the website yet tho

[Happy Monkey]

If it's what I think it is, it's that memo about how Terri Shiavo is a godsend for the Republicans, and can be used to punish some Florida congressman. The original memo got a small burst of press, and dropped off the radar in the media, but conservative bloggers started trying to prove it was a forgery, and a few pundits and Republican congressmen started saying the same thing publically. Yesterday, a Republican staffer admitted writing it.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

If it's what I think it is, it's that memo about how Terri Shiavo is a godsend for the Republicans, and can be used to punish some Florida congressman. The original memo got a small burst of press, and dropped off the radar in the media, but conservative bloggers started trying to prove it was a forgery, and a few pundits and Republican congressmen started saying the same thing publically. Yesterday, a Republican staffer admitted writing it.

Ouch.

Sweet.