What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

At this point he's probably right. Since the start of the recession the ones seeking work have been leaving, but the ones involved in crime, or escaping Mexican Authorities keep coming.

Beyond a few anecdotes, the overwhelming data would suggest otherwise. The vast majority of illegals do not commit other crimes.

And putting that aside, police chiefs in AZ have expressed that one of their concerns with the law is that it will have an adverse impact on community policing, resulting in less trust of the police among the Hispanic community.

added:
Oh, and the "he" (governor) is a she.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

SOME police chiefs in AZ have expressed...

Fixed it for you.... [/Reduxpropaganda]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Fixed it for you.... [/Reduxpropaganda]

If you're gonna fix it, then fix it correctly....

Originally Posted by Redux

The non-partisan AZ Association of Chiefs of Police has expressed....

Unless you have evidence that the AACOP is a propaganda arm of the Democratic Party.

added:
I am curious...do you think this is not propaganda:

...the majority of them in my opinion and I think in the opinion of law enforcement is that they are not coming here to work. They are coming here and they're bringing drugs. And they're doing drop houses and they're extorting people and they're terrorizing the familie

[classicman]

[TheMercenary]

It has nothing more than the fact that they are not the MAJORITY of opinions in AZ, unless you have something to bring to the table that refutes iin AZ that is the majority opinion?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It has nothing more than the fact that they are not the MAJORITY of opinions in AZ, unless you have something to bring to the table that refutes iin AZ that is the majority opinion?

I agree that the AACOP does not represent the majority of opinion....just the majority of the top police executives in the state, who I think most would agree, have a greater understanding of the potential impact of the law than the average citizen.

Polls make for great politics, but not always the best policy.

[TheMercenary]

Polls fail on many levels. You know that as well as I do.

The most important thing for me is to get TEXAS and NM on board with the policy and lawful laws that AZ has inacted. Let Calif deal with the hoards by their inactions. I am cool with that.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Polls fail on many levels. You know that as well as I do.

The most important thing for me is to get TEXAS and NM on board with the policy and lawful laws that AZ has inacted. Let Calif deal with the hoards by their inactions. I am cool with that.

The first step should be for the federal judiciary to determine if the AZ law, is in fact, lawful....or should we just assume it is because it is popular and the governor says it is lawful.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

The first step should be for the federal judiciary to determine if the AZ law, is in fact, lawful....or should we just assume it is because it is popular and the governor says it is lawful.

To late. The Feds had their chance. That chance has come and gone for many years.... many years and many Administrations. Time for the States to take over. None of the laws inacted in AZ violate current Federal Law. The Feds should have no say from this point forward. Each state has the right to deal with it as they see fit within the constraints of current law that has not been enforced by the Feds.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

To late. The Feds had their chance. That chance has come and gone for many years.... many years and many Administrations. Time for the States to take over. None of the laws inacted in AZ violate current Federal Law. The Feds should have no say from this point forward. Each state has the right to deal with it as they see fit within the constraints of current law that has not been enforced by the Feds.

But werent you the one who pointed out that Constitution gives the power "to establish a uniform rule of naturalization" to the federal government (Congress)? The "supremacy clause" may be at issue as well.

In fact, we dont know if the new law violates federal law (on one or more points of law). We have lots of opinions on both sides. And that is why we have a federal judiciary and it has yet to rule.

[classicman]

UPDATE - Teen shot by Border Patrol had smuggling arrests

EL PASO, Texas (AP) - A 15-year-old Mexican boy shot and killed by a U.S. Border Patrol agent was among El Paso's most wanted juvenile immigrant smugglers, according to federal arrest records reviewed by The Associated Press.

The records show Sergio Adrian Hernandez Huereca had been arrested at least four times since 2008 and twice in the same week in February 2009 on suspicion of smuggling illegal immigrants across the U.S.-Mexico border. Hernandez was repeatedly arrested along the U.S. side of the border near downtown El Paso, not far from where he was killed, but was never charged with a crime by federal prosecutors.

A Border Patrol agent shot and killed Hernandez June 7 while trying to arrest illegal immigrants crossing the muddy bed of the Rio Grande. Some witnesses said a group of people on the Mexican side were throwing rocks at the agents. Agents are generally permitted to use lethal force against rock throwers.

Mexico after a bicycle-mounted Border Patrol agent arrives in the riverbed. The agent detains one man on the U.S. side of the border and fires two audible shots toward Mexico after putting the man on the ground. The video shows what appears to be a body underneath a nearby railroad bridge spanning the border.

Border Patrol officials have said the agent told the rock throwers to stop and back off, but they persisted and he fired several times.

A federal official familiar with the investigation said Friday there is evidence that Hernandez was throwing rocks at the agent at the time of the shooting. The official, who has been briefed on the case and reviewed some evidence, spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak about the case publicly.

he records also show that in one case, federal prosecutors declined to charge Hernandez because there were no "extenuating circumstances or endangerment."

Daryl Fields, a spokesman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in San Antonio, said he could "neither confirm nor deny that information."

Border Patrol officials have declined to comment on his criminal record, citing an ongoing FBI investigation into whether the shooting was justified under Border Patrol rules and whether the agent, who remains unidentified, violated Hernandez's civil rights.

FBI Special Agent William Weiss also declined to comment Friday.

Link

[TheMercenary]

No.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

And this detail of just who's coming over the border is now making it into the national news and getting commented on. It had appeared in Arizona papers in a very small way, and not gotten national attention.

Seems at long last they're trying it -- even going to the trouble of taking Spanish lessons in an effort to gain enough proficiency to at least fool the Border Patrol or ICE.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by The Mercenary

The most important thing for me is to get TEXAS and NM on board with the policy and lawful laws that AZ has inacted.

See, here's the funny thing. Texas began moving on this a long time ago, but for some reason no one noticed. As of October 2008, you have to show proof of citizenship in order to obtain or renew a driver's license. If you are an immigrant here legally, but not a citizen, you are given a special driver's license that includes your visa's expiration date in big numbers on the front. If you're on an indefinite visa, your license is only good for 1 year, then you have to come back and renew it again. If your visa expires in less than 6 months, tough shit, you don't even get one of the special licenses.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

See, here's the funny thing. Texas began moving on this a long time ago, but for some reason no one noticed. As of October 2008, you have to show proof of citizenship in order to obtain or renew a driver's license. If you are an immigrant here legally, but not a citizen, you are given a special driver's license that includes your visa's expiration date in big numbers on the front. If you're on an indefinite visa, your license is only good for 1 year, then you have to come back and renew it again. If your visa expires in less than 6 months, tough shit, you don't even get one of the special licenses.

It is a start.