Less is More

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by jaguar
He has as much right as you to express his opinions and I know I'm not alone in saying he's dead on.

here's why it bothers me, jag. not because he voiced his opinion. he has, as you say, just as much right as i do to say whatever he wants. but to attempt to chastise people on a public forum for not conforming to his admittedly outdated perceptions is like telling someone in the grocery store that they're doing their shopping wrong. the cellar ( and any message board) is what you take from it, or what you put in. to you. talk about pissing in finger bowls. this is counterproductive. HIS good old days. maybe you remember them fondly, too. great. whatever.

it wouldnt even bother me if he had pointed to a particular instance of ;chaffing; and said, " hey, put some freaking thought into a post before you post it" or even saying to one person in particular that they are chatting too much. but to comment on the general malaise he feels and in a way that creates apprehension in some users to post at all for fear of being talked down to.....?

why bother?

[lookout123]

sorry - i had to leave that last one. i'm too much of a smart ass to have passed up the opportunity.

I have to agree with jim - i like the fact that you can count on reading ridiculous statements and stupid one liners in with the serious stuff. i like the community of it all. most of you all are in the east and i am in AZ, but we can exchange ideas and ridicule each other at will. i, for one, truly enjoy it. i'm a stock broker, so i work by myself except when i have an appt come in. i keep the cellar on my screen and post when i feel like it. it is a way to still touch the outside world while getting my job done. i won't go to a chat room because i have no interest in discussing what i look like with someone named "tinytits69" or "bigone1983". on the worst day the cellar still has adult conversation - so here i will stay.

i've been gone for most of the last 3 weeks for work. since i've been back i've been a little disappointed because the cellar has been pretty quiet. maybe it is because it is summer; hopefully people haven't become silent because of this thread.

i'll also add that i found this through another board that was growing stagnant because there were a couple of "old timers" that would gang up and shred anyone who disagreed. not in an "i disagree with you" way, but a "get the hell off our board, you are ruining our way of life" type of way. i have been here since the beginning of the year because it is an open forum for whatever discussion may come up.

and on that note - can we have a new word association thread?

edit - added last 2 paragraphs.

[limey]

I'm with Jim and Beestie on this one, but then I would be wouldn't I, being new here!

I came here following an ad placed on another bulletin board, so I assumed newcomers were being actively sought. If you want to maintain a certain style to a board I suppose you should make it private, by invitation only, and perhaps with a test to pass before admission?

Otherwise you get what you get ... i.e. me (LOL)

[lookout123]

Originally posted by sycamore


Good point, limey.

Perhaps UT should quit paying to advertise Cellar for a while.

that's right- we don't want our opinion pool polluted anymore. let's put a big lock on the front screen with a big sign that says
Go Away! New People Suck

or maybe we new guys should sign a disclosure committing ourselves to scrape and grovel at the feet of those who have gone before...

but seriously, what is the big deal. it doesn't take that long to either read or skip over goofy posts. for that matter, you can be like Radar and just put a bunch of people on ignore.

[jaguar]

*shrugs*
Outdated is a funny word to use, I assume it means political discussion above the level of fark.com. I fail to see how stating, point blank that there is hell of a lot of crap being posted and putting a little bit of thought it to it, or possibly refraining from pinky and the brain style 'NARF' posts when you have nothing to say is unreasonable. It's not some kind of arcane idea he's made up, it's just general decency. In another era it was called etiquette.

Why bother? It's called a signal to noise ratio for a reason. Look at any major public forum, look at the forums of slashdot, or fark, or any other major site you happen to name, you'll see the same thing, hundreds of oh-so-fucking hilarious one liners drowning out anything worthwhile, after a certain point moderation often makes it worse to boot. Cellar used to have a remarkably high one, it doesn't anymore. People left over time for various reasons, a few in silly spats of one kind or another but most simply flitted off into the ether as the ratio slowly dropped, I assume for greener pastures or simply found better ways to spend their time. Some of us have different tolerances than others and while today there's not tinytits69, the ways things are going it would not shock me before long. If and when there is, dig this out, you might see what I mean after all.


As for ads, I noticed UT has stayed out of this, I assume he follows a policy that new blood will always replenish the forums with new ideas and perspectives, I'm not so sure that works so well but that's his choice, it's his board.

Make of it what you will, I really don't give a fuck anymore.

[lookout123]

Originally posted by jaguar
...hilarious one liners drowning out anything worthwhile, after a certain point moderation often makes it worse to boot...

the things that are worthwhile and important are easy to see and read. the rest is just friendship (as much as can happen online). it sounds to me like it is just another way to make it clear that you feel intellectually superior to the common folk who like to treat this as a conversation instead of a place to post carefully edited theses.

[jaguar]

there is a time and a place for everything.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by lookout123
that's right- we don't want our opinion pool polluted anymore. let's put a big lock on the front screen with a big sign that says
Go Away! New People Suck

Why not?

Seriously, the advertising has certainly been good to a degree. But I think we've finally hit critical mass, and maybe it's time to be more exclusive. I'm not saying new people shouldn't be welcomed...I just don't think we should be actively looking for them right now.

[jinx]

Originally posted by jaguar
*shrugs*
In another era it was called etiquette.

To me, etiquette is about realizing that people have differences, but making an effort to respect their dignity as a person regardless. It is not about who is superior to whom. It is not about behaving one way towards people you want to impress and another towards people you feel are unworthy of your greatness. Any decent etiquette guide will tell you drink from (or piss in) your finger bowl if that's what your guest has done - as it's the pinnacle of rudeness to chastise them instead.

[jaguar]

Where the fuck did superiority come into this? Talk about a goddamn straw man. I must have been sleeptyping when I said we should all have gold stars next to our names in order of rank. Etiquette is about behaving in an appropriate manner.

Your post has a strange structure. First you accuse me of claiming to be some kind of superior. Then you imply that by not, as HB so wonderfully put it, pissing the finger bowl, I'm some kind of outsider and should well, I assume start posing crap all over the place in a better effort to fit in. Make your mind up.

Christ, all I, HB, Syc (speak out if I've got your angle wrong) and no doubt a few silent others want to do is raise the tone of the conversation a bit, at least in some forums and encourage intelligent, articulate discussion over inane babble. Who would have thought that would have raised such indignation. How that can be construed as haute dictation from up on high is beyond me.

[jinx]

Originally posted by jaguar


Christ, all I, HB, Syc (speak out if I've got your angle wrong) and no doubt a few silent others want to do is raise the tone of the conversation a bit, at least in some forums and encourage intelligent, articulate discussion over inane babble.

Soooo.... what's stopping you?
No indignation here, really. And if this thread causes you to proof read more of your posts, then I'm all for it.

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by Undertoad
I think one answer is removing the post count, which I think I will do when we go to vBulletin 3 (any weekend now).

jaguar
Neutiquam erro.

Registered: Apr 2001


I don't see how that is possibly the answer to anything HB addressed

xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten

Registered: Oct 2002


Then every post can be taken at face value rather then weighted against a percieved standing based on post counts, for or against.

well, then let's also lose the registration date.

this is why i say this thread sucks. there was nothing wrong with the forum, and i personally dont give a shit about post count ( i know that sounds like a bunch of shit given the comments i've made about it, but if anything, i worry about posting TOO much, so my post count not displaying bothers me not) but if the reason for losing the post count IS so that each post stands on it's value, and not percieved wieght based on the author, why have his start date...or his name for that matter?

[Beestie]

Originally posted by jaguar
Why bother?... Make of it what you will, I really don't give a fuck anymore.

I think LJ's point is that it is infinitely more productive to specifically address posters and posts than to drop in for your 8th post of 2004 and proclaim with the angst of a soul cast into Gehenna that the Giants have abandoned the Great City and left us, the pissants, to defile its once great carcass.

And LJ is correct.

If hubris boy decided to dust off his keyboard and take to task the 3 most eggregious violators of his unwritten law then you can easily imagine that things would tighten up around here. After that, he can take on the new three most egregious posters. Clean up from the ground up if that is what he thinks needs to be done. But, that takes work. One must become engaged. Much easier to fuss about it from a sterile distance.

While the Cellar might not be as great as it once was neither is Rome. Wanna burn it down too? Of course not.

And quit saying you don't give a fuck when you clearly do. And its good that you do. We should all take pride in the Cellar and we should all do our part to protect it - from the bottom and from the top.

[jaguar]

Well no, the thing is I don't. Chances are this'll be my last post, at least for a while. I have enough uphill battles right now without one with so little reward and such obvious animosity. Cellar used to be a good outlet, it no longer is.

[Undertoad]

--- I know for certain that once a place gets to a certain size, encouraging post count becomes extremely counter-productive. Let's see what happens with this change and also the vBulletin 3 switchover. I think people will step back and take a new tack to how they treat the place, and it will have to absorb the shock and take time to adjust.

--- Point taken on the ads, and I will stop running them.

--- It may be that we finally need an inner circle where members can keep up with other members without having to read the entire system.