June 28, 2007: Trash shadow

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by HLJ

Flint -- you've certainly put a lot of thought into this.

Yeah, but it is impossible as drawn. Projecting visible images on planes that don't exist. Projecting two images on a single plane and only see one of them at a 45 degree angle. Even Disney can't do this fairy tale.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Projecting two images on a single plane and only see one of them at a 45 degree angle.

On a plane, yes, but it's possible on a 3D surface for the shadow to make one image from one angle and another image from another angle.

[xoxoxoBruce]

"Image A reproduced on this plane". There is no plane.
"Image B reproduced on this plane". There is no plane.
Viewed from the image A projection point you will see half of image B if it's projected on a sphere or cylinder. From the same point you wouldn't see all of image A, unless it was a whole lot smaller than the sphere or cylinder, or what ever the hell that is, that has the planes that don't exist going through it. It won't work.
I won't even bother trying to explain why the other two are bullshit, his knowledge of optics is obviously zero.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

"Image A reproduced on this plane". There is no plane.
"Image B reproduced on this plane". There is no plane.

Perhaps he should have used the word "projection", or "cross-section". I understood it, at least.

Viewed from the image A projection point you will see half of image B if it's projected on a sphere or cylinder.

And if it was neither a sphere nor a cylinder, but a shape designed to catch shadows in a very specific way, you get a different result.

I won't even bother trying to explain why the other two are bullshit, his knowledge of optics is obviously zero.

The other two work as well. The sculptures are not cylinders, the circles indicate "insert sculpture here".

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But the artist's point was to make a sculpture of the trash they generated in six months and have it show a shadow of them. To say that isn't a real sculpture, that it doesn't look like anything, the art work is only the shadow, is assinine. It was contructed to look exactly like the artist intended.

But the shape of the pile of trash is irrelevant, if not for the shadow. The materials are the artistic statement of the pile, not the shape.

[Spexxvet]

HM, you are doing a fine job in this thread handling some pretty mystifying assertions and addressing some baffling misconceptions.

You're doing this maturely and intellectually, in the face of unfounded name calling and ridicule.

[ukamikanasi]

This reminds me of some photos that are hanging on the wall in the lobby of Building 26 at Microsoft. Check out the Empty Spaces series: http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/artc...wplay/gallery/

[freshnesschronic]

Totally not reading the main thread, but I almost can't believe those shadows are generated by inanimate objects like trash and metal circles or whatever.

Cool stuff. But continue on with whatever the mud slinging was here.

[Happy Monkey]

Quick and dirty demo of the first diagram.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Very nice, except it's not what's shown in the first diagram. Profiles A and B don't intersect.

[Happy Monkey]

Whatever that means. It's exactly what was portrayed by the diagram. If it is not what you thought the diagram meant, you were mistaken. The profiles "intersect" insomuch as any two different 2D projections of a 3D object "intersect".

[xoxoxoBruce]

intersect

• verb 1 divide (something) by passing or lying across it. 2 (of lines, roads, etc.) cross or cut each other.

— ORIGIN Latin intersecare ‘cut, intersect’.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

The profiles "intersect" insomuch as any two different 2D projections of a 3D object "intersect".

I'm not sure what it is you think the word "profile" on the diagram means, but that word seems to be what is preventing you from understanding the diagrams, which is why I tried a few other words.

What I understand it to mean is "the 2D pattern that the object appears as when viewed from the designated angle". As such, any two of them, as long as they aren't colinear, will "intersect", though I'm not sure the word is completely relevant.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I'm not sure what it is you think the word "profile" on the diagram means, but that word seems to be what is preventing you from understanding the diagrams, which is why I tried a few other words.

What I understand it to mean is "the 2D pattern that the object appears as when viewed from the designated angle". As such, any two of them, as long as they aren't colinear, will "intersect", though I'm not sure the word is completely relevant.

You've demonstrated your interpretation of what he diagrammed. It would be an interesting World if every craftsman was allowed to interpret the plans.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I'm not sure what it is you think the word "profile" on the diagram means...

Maybe this will help? From dictionary.com:

pro•file
4. an outline of an object, as a molding, formed on a vertical plane passed through the object at right angles to one of its principal horizontal dimensions.
5. a drawing or the like representing this.
10. The look, configuration, or lines of something: cars with a modern profile.
13.Theater. a flat stage property or scenic piece cut from a firm, thin material, as of beaverboard or plywood, and having an irregular edge resembling the silhouette of a natural object.
16. to draw a profile of.

pro•file
1. a. A side view of an object or structure, especially of the human head.
b. A representation of an object or structure seen from the side.
2. An outline of an object.

profile
1656, "a drawing of the outline of anything," from It. profilo "a drawing in outline," from profilare "to draw in outline," from pro- "forth" + filare "draw out, spin," from L.L. filare "to spin, draw out a line," from filum "thread."

profile
2. an outline of something (especially a human face as seen from one side)

profile
the view of a face, head etc from the side; a side view

pro•file
1. A side view of an object or a structure, especially of the human head.

In other words, exactly what my diagram illustrated.

The "vertical plane" that a profile is formed on can intersect with a "vertical plane" upon which a different profile is formed. If these profiles are made to represent two different objects, then, from the viewer's persepctive, the first object casts the shadow of the second, different, object.