Texas parents don't like nude sculpture - Page 3

xoxoxoBruce · 09-29-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I wasn't really discussing that, but, at a glance, let's see, I believe that is a teacher that stripped in front of her class, right? I'm sorry, I don't see the connection. It has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. A teacher stripping in front of her class has nothing whatsoever to do with a teacher taking her students to an art museum. Apples, oranges.

Of course you don't, because even you can't twist religion into that one like you do with every other thing in the world that bugs you.
It's not apples and oranges, it's art teachers offending students sensibilities. Both articles were about an art teacher being canned for allegedly offending some students sensibilities.

Quote:

When is "this kind of thing" (meaning: a problem with nude art) not caused by religion? Please note: I am not asking whether it is mandatory for religion to have this effect, but rather, when it does happen, when is it not religion causing it?

Short answer, usually. You're so hung up on religion, you can't see the difference between social mores and religious teaching. Apparently every time people disagree with your standard of behavior it's because of their religion. Every time somebody does something you consider stupid, you say it's because of their religion. That's bullshit, but you just throw that out and challenge anyone that disagrees, to prove your wrong.

Well, I challenge you to back up, your allegations. Prove the offended child was offended because of her religion. Or the mother of the offended child was offended because of her religion.

Flint · 09-29-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

But I'll add that it is never caused by religion. It is caused by prudes who use religion as an excuse to restrict people from seeing something they're afraid of.

Maybe "casued by" is overly restrictive, in a semantic sense. Rephrase: if you removed religion from the equation, would it still be happening? Another way: would this be happening without the involvement of religion? You yourself have stated the cause as being involved with religion. My point (sorry if I garbled it) was simply that.

I'm not big on hair-splitting between "religion, ideally" and "religion, in practice" - as I said, I'm a realist. When I say religion, I assume everyone knows that I am referring to the actual thing that exists in the world.

Happy Monkey · 09-28-2006, 01:56 PM

I actually, though a 100% union supporter, have some sympathy for that position. As I was growing up, the degree of union alignment seemed directly proportional to the degree of crappiness of a teacher. An obvious reason for this is that a teachers' union is designed to benefit teachers, not students, and therefore they make it difficult to fire teachers. As a result, bad teachers may find that vocal union support is easier than improving their teaching.

But the fact is that teachers get royally shafted on a consistent basis. They need union representation and, what's more, they need union representation that is made up of royal bastards if they're not going to be run roughshod over in every negotiation. And even with this situation, it's a myth that bad teachers can't be fired. They can be. There's a process defined in every union negotiation. What really stops bad teachers from being fired isn't the union process, it's the fact that the principal has no reason to believe that the next person will be any better, so they stick with the devil they know.

richlevy · 09-30-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

But the fact is that teachers get royally shafted on a consistent basis.

Personally, as soon as I saw that she had been a teacher for 28 years I immediately assumed that this was an excuse to screw her out of her full pension, assuming they offer one.

09-28-2006, 02:30 PM

I've subbed during a strike with a COMPLETELY clear conscience. Kids come first, at ALL times. (no BS about the "long-run, either)

Happy Monkey · 09-28-2006, 07:40 PM

Catholics and Protestants started with the same text. Then there was a schism based on differing interpretations. There are hundreds of religions based on the Bible, but with different interpretations. Things that are fundamental in one may not be in another.

morethanpretty · 09-28-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Catholics and Protestants started with the same text. Then there was a schism based on differing interpretations. There are hundreds of religions based on the Bible, but with different interpretations. Things that are fundamental in one may not be in another.

Catholics and Protestants are STILL Christians! Christianity is a religion. NOT Catholism that is a branch of Christianity. Islam is a religion, Sunni and Shi'a are branches of Islam. ANY religion based on the Bible is essentially, by definition Christian!

Happy Monkey · 09-29-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

Catholics and Protestants are STILL Christians! Christianity is a religion. NOT Catholism that is a branch of Christianity. Islam is a religion, Sunni and Shi'a are branches of Islam. ANY religion based on the Bible is essentially, by definition Christian!

Not all Christans would agree with you. Some Baptists don't think Catholics are Christian, for example. And some branches of Christianity are different enough to be considered different religions, not just sects. Mormonism comes to mind.

Flint · 09-29-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

NOT Catholism that is a branch of Christianity.

Wait...Catholicism a branch of Christianity?

Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the root of all Christianity (that exists today). The majority of Christian practices in the USA are "Catholic-Lite" (meaning Catholicism minus the parts they found inconvenient). If anything, "Christianity" is a "branch" of Catholicism.

morethanpretty · 09-29-2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Wait...Catholicism a branch of Christianity?

Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the root of all Christianity (that exists today). The majority of Christian practices in the USA are "Catholic-Lite" (meaning Catholicism minus the parts they found inconvenient). If anything, "Christianity" is a "branch" of Catholicism.

Actually Christian and Catholic are sometimes used interchangeably. Catholicism as it stands today though is far removed from how it began, in my opinion, and many others making it into a different form of the religion. Homo neanderthalensis or Neanderthals or cavemen were one of the original humans but yet modern men are known as homo sapiens...they are still in the same family but they are of a different species. Does this explain my meaning?

Flint · 09-28-2006, 07:41 PM

What can I say, I'm a realist. We could theorize "what religion is" all day long. Then, there is reality . . . (IE, thousands of years of human history)

Flint · 09-28-2006, 07:55 PM

I think we're all pretty well-informed on the subject...

xoxoxoBruce · 09-28-2006, 08:54 PM

And which religion is screwing that art teacher in China?

morethanpretty · 09-28-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

And which religion is screwing that art teacher in China?

China is a communist country and therefore technically aethiest...

xoxoxoBruce · 09-28-2006, 09:08 PM

The why the fuck are we talking about religion?

09-28-2006, 01:56 PM	#3
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	I actually, though a 100% union supporter, have some sympathy for that position. As I was growing up, the degree of union alignment seemed directly proportional to the degree of crappiness of a teacher. An obvious reason for this is that a teachers' union is designed to benefit teachers, not students, and therefore they make it difficult to fire teachers. As a result, bad teachers may find that vocal union support is easier than improving their teaching. But the fact is that teachers get royally shafted on a consistent basis. They need union representation and, what's more, they need union representation that is made up of royal bastards if they're not going to be run roughshod over in every negotiation. And even with this situation, it's a myth that bad teachers can't be fired. They can be. There's a process defined in every union negotiation. What really stops bad teachers from being fired isn't the union process, it's the fact that the principal has no reason to believe that the next person will be any better, so they stick with the devil they know. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-28-2006, 07:40 PM	#6
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Catholics and Protestants started with the same text. Then there was a schism based on differing interpretations. There are hundreds of religions based on the Bible, but with different interpretations. Things that are fundamental in one may not be in another. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-28-2006, 07:41 PM	#11
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	What can I say, I'm a realist. We could theorize "what religion is" all day long. Then, there is reality . . . (IE, thousands of years of human history) __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

09-28-2006, 07:55 PM	#12
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I think we're all pretty well-informed on the subject... __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

09-28-2006, 08:54 PM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	And which religion is screwing that art teacher in China? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-28-2006, 02:30 PM	#5
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	I've subbed during a strike with a COMPLETELY clear conscience. Kids come first, at ALL times. (no BS about the "long-run, either)

09-28-2006, 09:08 PM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The why the fuck are we talking about religion? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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