Women please vote - Page 3

Pie · 10-26-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddug

Stop being so selfish . Sick people are far too selfish in general.

What does it take to make her go away again?

Shawnee123 · 10-26-2006, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pie

What does it take to make her go away again?

I don't know, I'm about ready to change my stance on firearms.

Sundae · 10-26-2006, 08:46 AM

Aliantha

Much as I appreciate your motive in posting this question, and much as I respect you as an individual, I don't know if you can achieve your stated goal.

Quote:

I've decided to post this thread because I think some people here don't realize that the issue of rape is serious and that many many women (and some men) are affected by it.

I'm asking the women who view this thread to vote honestly so that the men can realize that this is no joking matter.

I had a friend who technically was date-raped (technically because she never accepted it was rape). It has never happened to me or anyone else close to me. Even if it had, I'd like to think I wouldn't flinch at the word Rape, or see it as a taboo subject for humour.

It would make me feel uncomfortable, and if I had been raped I agree the topic would probably revolt and distress me. But the bottom line is the criminal that raped me would be the person who had changed my life, not the person who made a joke/ comment all unaware of my personal circumstances.

There are very few people (IMO) who find rape as a topic amusing. Male or female. But telling people not to talk about it except in the most serious terms doesn't stop rape, and doesn't stop the victim from suffering.

You have my respect and sympathy (even if you don't want it) for what you have been through nonetheless.

Just my

LabRat · 10-26-2006, 08:50 AM

Back on subject...

I have never been raped. I only know one woman who said she was when she was younger, but I do not know her well enough to know details. I must assume that she was, as my impression of her is that she wouldn't lie about this type of thing.

As a kid, I do remember some older neighbor kids trying to get me to do some things with them, that would likely be considered sexual abuse (of me), but to be honest, I have blocked out the experience. I do get the creeps when I pass by their house, so I know *something* happened, though I know it wasn't rape--as in forced non-consensual intercourse.

I was lucky. However, I also lived at home during college and didn't party much because I had a steady boyfriend all through. I likely wasn't in nearly as many situations where rape is likely to occur.

Flint · 10-26-2006, 08:56 AM

What about the proposed change in UK law, where a drunk woman may be found incapable of giving consent?

Sundae · 10-26-2006, 10:07 AM

From here

Quote:

Now the government - as part of a package of reforms which have been incubating for more than two years - is proposing to define consent as "free agreement". The idea is to not to change the current law, but to clarify in statute for the first time what consent means. The aim is to make the law clearer, as an aid to preventing as well as prosecuting rape. The new law will spell out a range of circumstances, not exhaustive, in which it will be presumed there was no consent. One example is if the woman was asleep, unconscious, or too affected by alcohol or drugs to give free agreement.

Some men claim that the reforms will place an impossible burden on them to show that the woman agreed to sex if she had had a few drinks beforehand. Wrong. It will not, repeat not, change the burden of proof in rape cases, which will still be on the prosecution. It will not be for the man to show that the woman consented. If his defence is that she did consent, it will still be for the prosecution to satisfy the jury that she didn't. Nor will it create a new hazard for men who have sex with a woman intoxicated by drink or high on drugs. The rule that a woman cannot agree to sex if she is too drunk or drugged to give consent is already well established in law. It dates back to a case in 1845, and is really a statement of the obvious.

Rape is the denial of personal autonomy, removal of the right to say yes or no. A woman who is asleep, unconscious or in a state of extreme intoxication is in no position to say no. Men will still be able to invoke the defence of "honest belief" - that even if the woman wasn't consenting to sex, he honestly, however stupidly, thought she was.

Flint · 10-26-2006, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Some men claim that the reforms...

Oops! I'm sure they meant to say something less biased and sensationalistic.

Sundae · 10-26-2006, 10:32 AM

This was an article in a national newspaper. Perhaps the objections simply did come from men.

Flint · 10-26-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Perhaps the objections simply did come from men.

"Perhaps" is a fine excuse for slanted journalism..the statement isn't accurate. It's a sexist way to present the issue.
Here is a debate on the issue, which doesn't consist exclusively of filthy, knuckle-dragging, rape-supporting men.

Sundae · 10-26-2006, 10:58 AM

I don't get where you think this turned from a reasonable discussion about rape into a "lets kill all the men because they're rapists and we hate them" thread.

But hey - if we're going to have an intelligent discussion it's great that you have this person in your corner (male or female)

Quote:

shark1873 - re: Rape: How Drunk Is Too Drunk?
consent is consent ..wayy to easy for a woman too say she was too drunk and didnt know what she was doing etc ..then some innocent dude gets the fuckin jail

consent is consent ...

shark1873 - re: Rape: How Drunk Is Too Drunk?
is a guy too carry out a breathliser test now btw .. too see how drunk a girl is? HAHAHAHAHA! what a joke ..

as for real rapists ..cut there cocks off and keep em in jail forever lol

shark1873 - re: Rape: How Drunk Is Too Drunk?
when there are 2 red lights to not proceed even if consent is giving it will be maybe classed as rape if u proceed ....... is that wot it will read ..lmfao

Flint · 10-26-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I don't get where...

Quote:

Some men claim that the reforms...

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

...you have this person in your corner...

What does that even mean? How is this person in my "corner" ???

Sundae · 10-26-2006, 11:36 AM

I referenced an article froma respected broadsheet that happened to refer to men rather than people. You claimed this made it biased and sensationalistic.

Without then having any idea of the journalist's source, you claimed that the statement wasn't accurate.

You then referred me to a debate on the issue, in which at least one of the posters (quoted by me above) is not presenting a viewpoint any different from that you objected to in the article. Albeit less articulately.

Flint · 10-26-2006, 11:42 AM

I stand by my criticism of the article, specifically in regards to the poor choice of words.

I have offered no guarantee on the contents of the debate, other than the fact that both genders are represented.

lumberjim · 10-26-2006, 11:51 AM

this is flint flinging poo. let it go , SG. he's just baiting you.

lumberjim · 10-26-2006, 11:52 AM

in fact, Flint your new user title: Occasionally Flings Poo

View Poll Results: Have you been a victim of rape?
Yes - violent	2	6.45%
Yes - date	11	35.48%
No, but I was lucky to avoid it	4	12.90%
No never	14	45.16%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

10-26-2006, 08:50 AM	#34
LabRat twatfaced two legged bumhole Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,143	Back on subject... I have never been raped. I only know one woman who said she was when she was younger, but I do not know her well enough to know details. I must assume that she was, as my impression of her is that she wouldn't lie about this type of thing. As a kid, I do remember some older neighbor kids trying to get me to do some things with them, that would likely be considered sexual abuse (of me), but to be honest, I have blocked out the experience. I do get the creeps when I pass by their house, so I know something happened, though I know it wasn't rape--as in forced non-consensual intercourse. I was lucky. However, I also lived at home during college and didn't party much because I had a steady boyfriend all through. I likely wasn't in nearly as many situations where rape is likely to occur. __________________ Strength does not come from how much weight you can lift, or how many miles you can run. It comes from knowing that you set a goal, and rose to the challenge. Strength comes from within.

10-26-2006, 08:56 AM	#35
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	the definition of rape What about the proposed change in UK law, where a drunk woman may be found incapable of giving consent? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-26-2006, 10:32 AM	#38
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	This was an article in a national newspaper. Perhaps the objections simply did come from men. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

10-26-2006, 11:36 AM	#42
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	I referenced an article froma respected broadsheet that happened to refer to men rather than people. You claimed this made it biased and sensationalistic. Without then having any idea of the journalist's source, you claimed that the statement wasn't accurate. You then referred me to a debate on the issue, in which at least one of the posters (quoted by me above) is not presenting a viewpoint any different from that you objected to in the article. Albeit less articulately. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

10-26-2006, 11:42 AM	#43
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I stand by my criticism of the article, specifically in regards to the poor choice of words. I have offered no guarantee on the contents of the debate, other than the fact that both genders are represented. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-26-2006, 11:51 AM	#44
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	this is flint flinging poo. let it go , SG. he's just baiting you. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-26-2006, 11:52 AM	#45
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	in fact, Flint your new user title: Occasionally Flings Poo __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

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