NY Has Officially Lost It's Mind Bitch

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

On the other hand, he can hold down a steady job, and you sell knives in a pyramid scam. There's a lot to be said for the marketability of one's skills.

We do not use a pyramid structure, nor multilevel marketing -- we reckon MLM unethical and reject it.

[yesman065]

Ooohhh ouch.

[DanaC]

Hooowah! Low blow. I like it.

[Cicero]

Someone in Colorado had their bar closed down because of the customers' use of profanity on the premises. The state now owns it. If they don't like your customers there, they will close up the whole shop for just about anything. Profanity was the only thing they could catch the owner and patrons on....at first.
A local coffee shop (I was there nearly every day) also almost got hit with this but the owners agreed to actually having a formal investigation done of their regular customers as to not get their business taken away. I was actually there for that part. People cussed, smoked, and talked politics outside the doors of the place- and were investigated by local law enforcement whilst chatting before or after work at their local hangout.
Colorado has already completely lost it's mind bitch. Fuck Bush.
If they find you doing something illegal on a prime piece of real estate-like cussing in public- the owner might get the place confiscated and given to the state.
It was a couple years back and I'm trying to remember the name of the law they came up with to do all that with- I guess I'll have to get back to it. Here it is, a short article- It was closed down and the owner was investigated and arrested later.

Colorado: State, tavern reach agreement over profanity
Colorado has reached an agreement with a tavern owner who was threatened with the loss of his liquor license for permitting profanity in his establishment. The state will quit threatening tavern owners with that penalty, and the owner of Leonard's Bar II in Colorado Springs will withdraw his civil rights complaint under the plan. Department of Revenue spokeswoman Dorothy Dalquist said July 6 the state decided to stop enforcing the profanity regulation because it is antiquated. A state agent had seized 29 signs, 21 of which included the "f" word, from Leonard Carlo's bar on Aug. 31, citing the now-abandoned 1979 regulation prohibiting profanity in bars. Associated Press

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Colorado has already completely lost it's mind bitch. Fuck Bush.
If they find you doing something illegal on a prime piece of real estate-like cussing in public- the owner might get the place confiscated and given to the state.

I agree with you - that is bullshit, but don't blame Bush - he had nothing to do with it.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Colorado has already completely lost it's mind bitch. Fuck Bush.
If they find you doing something illegal on a prime piece of real estate-like cussing in public- the owner might get the place confiscated and given to the state.
It was a couple years back and I'm trying to remember the name of the law they came up with to do all that with- I guess I'll have to get back to it. Here it is, a short article- It was closed down and the owner was investigated and arrested later.

Colorado: State, tavern reach agreement over profanity
Colorado has reached an agreement with a tavern owner who was threatened with the loss of his liquor license for permitting profanity in his establishment. The state will quit threatening tavern owners with that penalty, and the owner of Leonard's Bar II in Colorado Springs will withdraw his civil rights complaint under the plan. Department of Revenue spokeswoman Dorothy Dalquist said July 6 the state decided to stop enforcing the profanity regulation because it is antiquated. A state agent had seized 29 signs, 21 of which included the "f" word, from Leonard Carlo's bar on Aug. 31, citing the now-abandoned 1979 regulation prohibiting profanity in bars. Associated Press

Sounds about like Colorado Springs. The religious wackos in that area are appalling.

[wolf]

If we couldn't use profanity my office would completely shut down.

In fact, I had trouble typing this without inserting at least four uses of the word "fuckin'."

[richlevy]

So if I understand this correctly in Colorado it's conservative authoritarian wackos who don't like profanity and in NYC it's liberal authoritarian wackos who don't like profanity. Is that right?

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by richlevy

So if I understand this correctly in Colorado it's conservative authoritarian wackos who don't like profanity and in NYC it's liberal authoritarian wackos who don't like profanity. Is that right?

They have become so alike it's really hard to tell Rich. But yes- at that time it was all the good god-fearing conservative wacko samaritans. It's so Orwellian out there and there is no good way to describe it to the extent it deserves.
I only said "Fuck Bush" because that was the exact terminology thrown around in many of those Colorado "crimes" under investigation. (btw) Don't worry- I don't even get my humor sometimes- too personal and dark.
Really they were just hunting down property (cars and houses too) and if profanity is illegal, well- find some criminals at any local coffee shop or bar. Someone in either of those places can have too much and let it loose. Oh and they did. I'm not sure why they wouldn't cuss. A lot.........
Before I left they were monitoring certain neighborhoods for domestic violence and they could confiscate your property then too.

[DanaC]

's just authoritarian wackos

[DanaC]

I simply know those specific usages -- and I do give thought to what are somewhat gray areas, such as pluralizing abbreviations, where one can argue that an apostrophe there is standing in for those letters not included in the abbreviation.

There is often confusion in plural possessive, when the plural is not formed by the addition of 's', such as: men's or mens' ?

What I was trying to explain Urbane, is that there is a difference between competently using language in its spoken form and having the same degree of competence in written language. One is a natural skill, which the brain is set-up to acquire in the same way we are set up to learn to walk, and the other...isn't. Some people will have more aptitude for the nuances of written language than others. It is a skill which some have learned well, others poorly, some exceptionally... the idea that they are somehow less than you, or less respectful of their spoken tongue than you, because they did not acquire the same nuanced understanding as you did of apostrophe use and the derivation of words, is arrogant.

The language came first... we then invented ways of expressing it that tried to fit it into an entirely different grammatical structure(Latin). Written language is an invention...its structures are the arbitrary decisions of long dead men, in much the same way that the bible is. Fortunately, these days, grammar is now taught in a very different way to linguistics and communication students.

K. I'll get off my horse now about the Latin thing. Its a bugbear of mine.

Not everyone places/ed as much emphasis as you have on producing written language that can hold up to scrutiny. Most people, and I put myself in this latter group, seek merely to make themselves understood. They may, like me, have a feel for the way words run together and how they sound when spoken aloud. They may just wish to present the information, stage by stage, until their point is made. They may...if writing a sign, just want to convey simple information.

Now, I'll laugh with everyone else at the obvious gaffs and as an ex-literacy tutor I have a fairly large store of 'em in my memory. But making judgements about a person from their writing skills, beyond the extent to which they've learned a skill, is not something I would be inclined to do.

Your caring so much about getting the written version of the language right, does not make you better, nor does it make your words weigh more.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yeah, it don't make him no smarter any.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by DanaC

There is often confusion in plural possessive, when the plural is not formed by the addition of 's', such as: men's or mens' ?

There is, but the knowledgeable -- the adequately trained, if you like -- do not suffer from it. Men's is the correct usage: the plural is indicated in the vowel mutation and the apostrophe goes before the S because there is no need to stack plural formation on plural formation; cf. English's avoidance of the double negative. The apostrophe may be taken to stand for the missing possessive pronouns like his, hers, theirs -- "the men-theirs."

I had this cold by elementary school. What's the others' story?

What I was trying to explain Urbane, is that there is a difference between competently using language in its spoken form and having the same degree of competence in written language.

Which point didn't actually get made then, but it is true.

One is a natural skill, which the brain is set-up to acquire in the same way we are set up to learn to walk, and the other...isn't. Some people will have more aptitude for the nuances of written language than others. It is a skill which some have learned well, others poorly, some exceptionally... the idea that they are somehow less than you, or less respectful of their spoken tongue than you, because they did not acquire the same nuanced understanding as you did of apostrophe use and the derivation of words, is arrogant.

There was no understanding, nuanced or otherwise, to that example at all, which is why I remember it so vividly and why I'm so thoroughly appalled even today -- the error was too elementary for an adult's powers. I did not achieve my quality of written English through either exceptional genius nor magic. If anything, it was being trained by people who got it -- and could teach others to get it also.

The language came first... we then invented ways of expressing it that tried to fit it into an entirely different grammatical structure(Latin). Written language is an invention...its structures are the arbitrary decisions of long dead men, in much the same way that the Bible is. Fortunately, these days, grammar is now taught in a very different way to linguistics and communication students.

K. I'll get off my horse now about the Latin thing. Its a bugbear of mine.

I agree: it was quite the misapplication, wasn't it, to insist that you shouldn't end an English sentence a preposition with. Up with this we should not put. (Anyone who wants to imagine Churchill making Yoda sounds is free to.)

Not everyone places/ed as much emphasis as you have on producing written language that can hold up to scrutiny. Most people, and I put myself in this latter group, seek merely to make themselves understood.

I'm afraid this amounts to a plea for incompetence, which I reject at the nonce and always shall and will. Arbitrarily. :p

They may, like me, have a feel for the way words run together and how they sound when spoken aloud.

As do I.

They may just wish to present the information, stage by stage, until their point is made. They may...if writing a sign, just want to convey simple information.

Another plea for incompetence? All right, why?

Now, I'll laugh with everyone else at the obvious gaffs and as an ex-literacy tutor I have a fairly large store of 'em in my memory.

Like leaving off the final E of gaffe and substituting for this a hooked snagger of fish and bales, or several of them -- though we'd agree that were we to get ourselves mixed up with the pointy parts of one or more gaffs, they would be about as obvious to us as anything is likely to get. Colo(u)rful too. And difficult to bear.

But making judgements about a person from their writing skills, beyond the extent to which they've learned a skill, is not something I would be inclined to do.

In my experience poor writing and muddled communication are so often associated with poor thinking that that is the way to bet. I am not afraid of making judgements; not the way some would like us to be -- that these some may be preserved from the social consequences of gaffes, or the general understanding that some people's ideas are just not very good. Political correctness is a form of intellectual tyranny towards that very end.

Your caring so much about getting the written version of the language right, does not make you better, nor does it make your words weigh more.

If you insist. As for me, I beg to differ, and I can make it felt. Or sandpaper.

Language can become art rather than engineering -- I'm good at the art end, and can follow the engineering.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

In my experience poor writing and muddled communication are so often associated with poor thinking that that is the way to bet.

I've said it before, and it continues to be true more often than not:
if you can't figure out how to state an idea clearly, then you probably don't have a clear idea to begin with.

[DanaC]

Wat he said