Come and Get it! Free Healt Care for All! - Page 3

DanaC · 08-17-2007, 06:36 PM

Why not?

TheMercenary · 08-17-2007, 06:47 PM

My experience has been that the systems are not compatible.

Let me give you a broad example. During many years in the military I had the pleasure of doing a few US/UK exchanges. The ability to get things done in the UK military was amazing, logical, easy. Sgt Chappy just calls up his bud over in mainland UK and things happen. In the US we have layers and layers of systems that we have to go through to get the same things done. Why? Because it is HUGE. We have more tanks at one post in Germany than all of the tanks in the UK. Our heath care system is entrenched in years of doing things a certain way. We can't do anything on the cheap here, nothing. To many hands in the pot. To many special interest groups with to much to lose. And just like in the UK military things are much easier to do when the layers are not there to get in the way of change. Costs are everything. How much tax do you guys pay to maintain your health care system? Our tax system is not set up the same way. We have to change much to fix our health care system. I am not sure that our system of how we lobby in Congress lends it self to the change we would need to make to fix health care, and so far ALL of the political electorees have refused to change that. There are so many pieces.

DanaC · 08-17-2007, 07:04 PM

*Nods* Okay. Good answer.

TheMercenary · 08-17-2007, 07:11 PM

Trying to come up with a list of bits that would need change or in some way being affected by a change to a socialized system:

Tax system
Pharmacy Corps interests
HMO's interests
Insurance interests
Congress funding by special interests
Doctors Lobby
National Hospital organizations
Medicare
Mediciad
State sponsored insurance programs
Private insurance corps and role with employeers
Retired persons organizations
Trauma Care networks
Issues with illegal aliens
Unions

Undertoad · 08-18-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Overall, the researchers say, 18,314 people die in the USA each year because they lack preventive services, a timely diagnosis or appropriate care.

That works out to 1 in 16,381 Americans.

OMG BROKEN SYSTEM EVERYBODY PANIC

yesman065 · 08-18-2007, 09:35 AM

got one o' them new fangled calculaters to gimme a % on that? Just for a lil perspective.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-18-2007, 09:06 PM

I wonder how many of those people, "lack preventive services, a timely diagnosis or appropriate care", by choice or ignorance?

BrianR · 08-19-2007, 02:04 PM

I think that the whole idea of a NHS in America is going to fail because we here have a huge sense of entitlement and there is no system anywhere here that "gives away" anything that isn't fraught with abuse.

Make heath care "free" and everyone will flood doctor's offices with the slightest complaint.

The only way I can see this happen is to nationalise the entire health care system. Make all doctors employees of the government. Set salaries for them. Provide government malpractice insurance as a perk. Regulate care standards. Make all pharmacies (and pharmacists (chemists to the Brits)) part of the new system so that payments can be controlled and tracked. Controls and limits set by beaurocrats. Fiefdoms and political power can be set by congressional decree.

I just don't see this happening. Not yet anyway.

DanaC · 08-19-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

I think that the whole idea of a NHS in America is going to fail because we here have a huge sense of entitlement and there is no system anywhere here that "gives away" anything that isn't fraught with abuse.

Make heath care "free" and everyone will flood doctor's offices with the slightest complaint.

The same arguments were made against the NHS. Indeed, for a little while that was the case: then the novelty wore off and people settled down to not wanting to go to their doctors unless they absolutely had to.

Quote:

ake all pharmacies (and pharmacists (chemists to the Brits)) part of the new system so that payments can be controlled and tracked.

Pharmacies are private businesses. They claim back the costs from the NHS when they present the prescriptions they've processed. They also sell medicines. There are times when a medicine is cheaper to get over the counter, or indeed, is simply something you wouldn't need to go to a doctor for. Pharmacies are usually thriving businesses.

Happy Monkey · 08-19-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianR

Make heath care "free" and everyone will flood doctor's offices with the slightest complaint.

Oh, yeah. I love going to the doctor's.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-19-2007, 05:50 PM

You aren't the problem, it's the same people that just love to chat with telephone solicitors that will jam the Doctors office on a regular basis.

9th Engineer · 08-19-2007, 07:25 PM

There are lots of people who love to go to the doctor's. It's the attention, for some people it's the only time anyone gives a damn about whether they live or die, so they crave it. Imagine, you work your 8 hour shift in basically the same shitty little dead end job you've had for the last 20 years. You know you have no chance for advancement because you don't have the skills to move up the ladder, and you know that others also know this. The most exciting thing in your life is the occasional gathering of people in your neighborhood around a little grill while you ponder the fact that you'll be doing this until you experience the joy of moving into a retirement house. Then one day you enter a magical realm where people, very knowledgeable, powerful people, spend all their time talking with you and paying attention to how you're feeling. They care about how you're doing and express sympathy for your pain,when you haven't been getting these attentions from other people in your life.

Shallow, self absorbed, whiny, bossy, or even just stupid people start indulging themselves even when nothing is really wrong.

There are also people who honestly think that every little bump, scrape, and ache they experience deserves the attention of an M.D, but I'm lumping these people in under 'all of the above'.

I spent this summer interning in an ER, I've seen the type.

bluecuracao · 08-19-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianR

Make heath care "free" and everyone will flood doctor's offices with the slightest complaint.

There are lots of people who already have 'free' health care from the government in some form, or from their employer...I wonder how many of them do that.

edit: oh--missed 9th's post.

piercehawkeye45 · 08-19-2007, 08:51 PM

Free health care would bring the working class to the doctors a lot more since they do a lot of physical work and don't have the best health insurance so they won't go to the doctor unless they have too.

busterb · 08-19-2007, 09:03 PM

Hell I have free health care. Just give your rich uncle a few years, maybe the best ones, of your life. BTW. It's better than it was a few years ago. IMHO.

08-17-2007, 06:47 PM	#32
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	My experience has been that the systems are not compatible. Let me give you a broad example. During many years in the military I had the pleasure of doing a few US/UK exchanges. The ability to get things done in the UK military was amazing, logical, easy. Sgt Chappy just calls up his bud over in mainland UK and things happen. In the US we have layers and layers of systems that we have to go through to get the same things done. Why? Because it is HUGE. We have more tanks at one post in Germany than all of the tanks in the UK. Our heath care system is entrenched in years of doing things a certain way. We can't do anything on the cheap here, nothing. To many hands in the pot. To many special interest groups with to much to lose. And just like in the UK military things are much easier to do when the layers are not there to get in the way of change. Costs are everything. How much tax do you guys pay to maintain your health care system? Our tax system is not set up the same way. We have to change much to fix our health care system. I am not sure that our system of how we lobby in Congress lends it self to the change we would need to make to fix health care, and so far ALL of the political electorees have refused to change that. There are so many pieces. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

08-17-2007, 07:11 PM	#34
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Trying to come up with a list of bits that would need change or in some way being affected by a change to a socialized system: Tax system Pharmacy Corps interests HMO's interests Insurance interests Congress funding by special interests Doctors Lobby National Hospital organizations Medicare Mediciad State sponsored insurance programs Private insurance corps and role with employeers Retired persons organizations Trauma Care networks Issues with illegal aliens Unions __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

08-18-2007, 09:06 PM	#37
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I wonder how many of those people, "lack preventive services, a timely diagnosis or appropriate care", by choice or ignorance? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-19-2007, 02:04 PM	#38
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	I think that the whole idea of a NHS in America is going to fail because we here have a huge sense of entitlement and there is no system anywhere here that "gives away" anything that isn't fraught with abuse. Make heath care "free" and everyone will flood doctor's offices with the slightest complaint. The only way I can see this happen is to nationalise the entire health care system. Make all doctors employees of the government. Set salaries for them. Provide government malpractice insurance as a perk. Regulate care standards. Make all pharmacies (and pharmacists (chemists to the Brits)) part of the new system so that payments can be controlled and tracked. Controls and limits set by beaurocrats. Fiefdoms and political power can be set by congressional decree. I just don't see this happening. Not yet anyway. __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

08-19-2007, 05:50 PM	#41
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	You aren't the problem, it's the same people that just love to chat with telephone solicitors that will jam the Doctors office on a regular basis. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-17-2007, 06:36 PM	#31
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Why not?

08-17-2007, 07:04 PM	#33
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Nods Okay. Good answer.

08-18-2007, 09:35 AM	#36
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	got one o' them new fangled calculaters to gimme a % on that? Just for a lil perspective.

08-19-2007, 07:25 PM	#42
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	There are lots of people who love to go to the doctor's. It's the attention, for some people it's the only time anyone gives a damn about whether they live or die, so they crave it. Imagine, you work your 8 hour shift in basically the same shitty little dead end job you've had for the last 20 years. You know you have no chance for advancement because you don't have the skills to move up the ladder, and you know that others also know this. The most exciting thing in your life is the occasional gathering of people in your neighborhood around a little grill while you ponder the fact that you'll be doing this until you experience the joy of moving into a retirement house. Then one day you enter a magical realm where people, very knowledgeable, powerful people, spend all their time talking with you and paying attention to how you're feeling. They care about how you're doing and express sympathy for your pain,when you haven't been getting these attentions from other people in your life. Shallow, self absorbed, whiny, bossy, or even just stupid people start indulging themselves even when nothing is really wrong. There are also people who honestly think that every little bump, scrape, and ache they experience deserves the attention of an M.D, but I'm lumping these people in under 'all of the above'. I spent this summer interning in an ER, I've seen the type. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity. Last edited by 9th Engineer; 08-19-2007 at 07:30 PM. Reason: spelling error

08-19-2007, 08:51 PM	#44
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Free health care would bring the working class to the doctors a lot more since they do a lot of physical work and don't have the best health insurance so they won't go to the doctor unless they have too.

08-19-2007, 09:03 PM	#45
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	Hell I have free health care. Just give your rich uncle a few years, maybe the best ones, of your life. BTW. It's better than it was a few years ago. IMHO. __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch.

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