Palestinian baby killed by Israeli Terrorists - Page 3

Undertoad · 07-26-2002, 02:50 PM

There ya go! I think it's absolutely correct that you criticize my source. I agree that it's a shitty source and I wasn't about to quote any of the other stats they had on that page - they were clearly trying to construct a very specific case.

The thing is, your number (minus a few weeks of time, I think) is contained within that source. There ARE 3 times the number of Palestinians dead. But this is the first source I've seen that tries to separate out the numbers of combatants vs. non-combatants. Does the Reuters number include the bombers themselves? Or the Palestinians strung up in the town square by their fellow men? I think it does. And if so, it's telling the wrong story.

Of course, Reuters is part of that mainstream media perspective you hate... what a tangle! Tell me, does Mr. Chomsky have any better information?

MaggieL · 07-26-2002, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
But this is the first source I've seen that tries to separate out the numbers of combatants vs. non-combatants.

A key element of the Palestinian strategy is to conceal combatants within the civilian population, and then to indiscriminantly attack noncombatant civilians. Then when an attempt is made to counter attack, they cry "genocide". The distinction between combatants and non combatants is made only when it is useful for propaganda purposes.

russotto · 07-27-2002, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by umairfoo

what does hamas have to regret? their image is tarnished anyway. israel's image, in the eyes of americans, is squeeky clean for the most part.

Nobody who has thought about it thinks Israel is "squeeky clean". But compared to the terrorist groups, they're paragons of morality -- which says a LOT more about the terrorist groups than about Israel.

I imagine you're right that the Israeli's don't really regret killing the civilians, not even the children -- if I were the Israeli on the street, my thought would be along the lines of "Good, a few more who won't grow up to be suicide bombers". But that's just speculation. And it is pretty clear that UNLIKE the terrorist groups, Israel does not go out trying to kill noncombatants.

jaguar · 07-27-2002, 08:08 PM

I was talking to a few ex militray guys about this, Bristish Intel core to be exact. These are the guys who deal with the IRA, they're not exactly nice when it comes to terrorists but guess what? They thought it was disgusting, why? Becase they used a one ton bomb on a civilian building to kill one man. Even the IRA don't sink that low. To call the killing of innocent civvies "Great success" is just fucking disgusting. The simplr fact is this - if Britan wants to knock off a individual leader the send in a specially trained team of guys who do it and don't kill anyone else, highly trained, motivated individuals specially trained for such operations. Isreal has these people too but they choose intead of slaughter innocents instead. There will be blood on the streets of Tel Aviv and no sympathy here. Sharon has engineered this quagmire - there now is no way out of it, there is no functioning palastinian leadership, there isn't even anyone to negoiate with who has any power and nothing will change until Isreal realises that commiting some of the worst systamatic persecution since the holocaust is not going to achieve anything except the ire of the developed world.

woohoo i got published about this:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...497352354.html

07-27-2002, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
There will be blood on the streets of Tel Aviv and no sympathy here.

So that would make this situation exactly like every other?

elSicomoro · 07-27-2002, 09:59 PM

I assume this is yours, jag?

The "Jew-hatred" Yossi Klein Halevi claims is "beginning to penetrate respectable institutions including universities" (Opinion, 22/7) is merely growing indignation at the increasingly barbaric and morally bankrupt actions of Israel in its treatment of the Palestinian people and its response to terrorism. These callous tactics were witnessed again this week in the slaughter of civilians by the Israeli air force in bombing civilian buildings, in a mission to kill one Hamas leader. Such crude tactics and use of excessive force will rightly earn the distaste of the developed world.

Found it by looking for your first name.

MaggieL · 07-27-2002, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
I assume this is yours, jag?

Can't be...it's all spelled correctly. The cocksure self-righteous attitude is familiar , though. :-)

jaguar · 07-28-2002, 05:46 AM

yea, thats mine.

Should write more often, all but one have been published and its kinda fun really. Amazing the difference when i'm not writing on the fly.

jaguar · 07-29-2002, 02:33 AM

Undertoad · 07-31-2002, 12:56 PM

The ICT study I mentioned was further detailed by Tech Central Station on Tuesday, and the author does a little analysis to figure out whether it was biased. His conclusion: yes, it was slightly biased, in favor of Palestinians by rating all unknowns as "non-combatants".

TCS article

Bias check: TCS are a bunch of war-mongering geeks and the guy even indulges in slanting the numbers a certain way mid-article. But the numbers themselves stand up so far... because even when stated by biased people, facts are facts.

07-27-2002, 08:08 PM	#34
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I was talking to a few ex militray guys about this, Bristish Intel core to be exact. These are the guys who deal with the IRA, they're not exactly nice when it comes to terrorists but guess what? They thought it was disgusting, why? Becase they used a one ton bomb on a civilian building to kill one man. Even the IRA don't sink that low. To call the killing of innocent civvies "Great success" is just fucking disgusting. The simplr fact is this - if Britan wants to knock off a individual leader the send in a specially trained team of guys who do it and don't kill anyone else, highly trained, motivated individuals specially trained for such operations. Isreal has these people too but they choose intead of slaughter innocents instead. There will be blood on the streets of Tel Aviv and no sympathy here. Sharon has engineered this quagmire - there now is no way out of it, there is no functioning palastinian leadership, there isn't even anyone to negoiate with who has any power and nothing will change until Isreal realises that commiting some of the worst systamatic persecution since the holocaust is not going to achieve anything except the ire of the developed world. woohoo i got published about this: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...497352354.html __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-28-2002, 05:46 AM	#38
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	yea, thats mine. Should write more often, all but one have been published and its kinda fun really. Amazing the difference when i'm not writing on the fly. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-29-2002, 02:33 AM	#39
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	__________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-26-2002, 02:50 PM	#31
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	There ya go! I think it's absolutely correct that you criticize my source. I agree that it's a shitty source and I wasn't about to quote any of the other stats they had on that page - they were clearly trying to construct a very specific case. The thing is, your number (minus a few weeks of time, I think) is contained within that source. There ARE 3 times the number of Palestinians dead. But this is the first source I've seen that tries to separate out the numbers of combatants vs. non-combatants. Does the Reuters number include the bombers themselves? Or the Palestinians strung up in the town square by their fellow men? I think it does. And if so, it's telling the wrong story. Of course, Reuters is part of that mainstream media perspective you hate... what a tangle! Tell me, does Mr. Chomsky have any better information?

07-27-2002, 09:59 PM	#36
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I assume this is yours, jag? The "Jew-hatred" Yossi Klein Halevi claims is "beginning to penetrate respectable institutions including universities" (Opinion, 22/7) is merely growing indignation at the increasingly barbaric and morally bankrupt actions of Israel in its treatment of the Palestinian people and its response to terrorism. These callous tactics were witnessed again this week in the slaughter of civilians by the Israeli air force in bombing civilian buildings, in a mission to kill one Hamas leader. Such crude tactics and use of excessive force will rightly earn the distaste of the developed world. Found it by looking for your first name.

07-31-2002, 12:56 PM	#40
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	The ICT study I mentioned was further detailed by Tech Central Station on Tuesday, and the author does a little analysis to figure out whether it was biased. His conclusion: yes, it was slightly biased, in favor of Palestinians by rating all unknowns as "non-combatants". TCS article Bias check: TCS are a bunch of war-mongering geeks and the guy even indulges in slanting the numbers a certain way mid-article. But the numbers themselves stand up so far... because even when stated by biased people, facts are facts.

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