Car needs fixing - Page 3

monster · 07-19-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

After Googling for the problem, you can no longer convince me that a bad door switch is not causing this.

Perhaps the override switch is faulty too, but everyone who complains about this problem says the override switch does not affect the permanently turned-on light.

Many people say that once the driver's door is considered open, you'll get the "beep beep beep" indicator while you're driving. Until you hit 20 mph. Then once you slow to below 20 mph, it starts up again.

yebbut, the reason I say it's not that -apart from it logically not being that- is it was the first thing we checked because it's the solution that works for everyone else. This time we get to be special. lucky us.

Undertoad · 07-19-2010, 03:24 PM

Maybe it's not the switch, maybe the wiring to one of the doors has failed.

What we really need is a wiring diagram...

monster · 07-19-2010, 03:38 PM

I'll wire your diagram.....

What we really need is a new car

Beest · 07-19-2010, 04:26 PM

The door ajar light acts correctly.

If you are listenig to the radio and take out the key, the radio stays on until you open the door, I used this as a test of the mechanical switch that detects whether any door is open or closed and it all checked out OK, if you leave a door open the lights go off eventually anyway.
Something has decided against logic to keep the lights full on no matter what, a simple relay would have been nice, but I'm guessing we're SOL there.
The fuse diagram lists a front electronics module, a rear electronics module and a powertrain module.

classicman · 07-19-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

the problem seems to be with something ignoring that information and keeping the lights on anyway.

... like a stuck relay?

monster · 07-19-2010, 09:29 PM

you're like a stuck record, that's what. We didn't actually rule that out if you read back, although it makes logical nonsense because you can override the relay with the switch to the left of the console -and that's still working. So even if it was stuck, we should still be able to override it. If this is a wiring issue, then the guy (yup, has to be male) who designed it should be shot..... but we're still investigating the relay issue

What I love about the cellar is the wealth, variety and depth of expert knowledge there is here. What I hate about the cellar is the need for some of the people in possession of that knowledge to patronize and assume idiot-level intelligence in the questioner. And hypocrites. Didn't you just get snitty with tw for making the same point twice, CM?

We can google. We can try what google suggests. We can use other search engines. We have friends in the car industry, Beest works in the car industry. We're smart enough to do plenty of research on the obvious and even the not-so-frickin-obvious before asking The Cellar. We don't tend to bother the genius that lurks here unless the obvious has failed. It didn't fucking work this time. So we expanded our horizons. Don't post snippets of the first google search you did, it's insulting.

Thanks for the suggestions beyond that -we're still working on them, we'll keep you posted if you care.

classicman · 07-19-2010, 09:37 PM

Well I took it upon myself to ask a friend who is an electrical engineer. After giving him what little info I could, he repeatedly came back to the same conclusion... either the computer or a relay. Sorry I tried to help. Cannot imagine why I tried to do that for you. It won't happen again.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-19-2010, 11:03 PM

Monster, it might have been helpful if you'd stated in the first post what you had tried/discovered already. We were starting from zero when you apparently were already on step three or four.

Beest · 07-20-2010, 01:28 PM

So, which maintenance manual, I see Haynes, which was the gold standard in the UK, and Chiltons, any others, any preference?

classicman · 07-20-2010, 02:29 PM

I've used Haynes and Chilton. I believe it was Chilton when I repaired the cruise control on one of my cars. The diagrams were excellent.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-20-2010, 10:08 PM

Ford's manual for that vehicle would be the gold standard. They are available from HelmInc.com.

Beest · 07-21-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Ford's manual for that vehicle would be the gold standard. They are available from HelmInc.com.

Do you mean the technicians workshop manual, somewhat overkill for the lightweight home dabbler like myself, especially at $180.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-21-2010, 11:34 AM

Yes that's the one. I have them for every car I've owned, because that's the definitive source. You might be able to find the wiring diagram(s) you need online, or at the library. But automotive wiring has gotten so complicated, because of it's dependence on modules (computers), you'll probably find there are several circuits involved. That link that UT posted, describes the interrelation of the components pretty well, and some possible solutions to try, if you want to wing it.

tw · 07-22-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I've used Haynes and Chilton.

Those manuals are only abridged copies of what the automaker already printed (sold by Helms). Generally, the wiring diagrams in the base shop manual are poor. Often wiring diagrams are sold in a separate manual. Those manuals cost a little more - and provide significantly more information.

Sometimes people sell CDs with copies from that wiring diagram on Ebay. Or a CD version is available for the European version of that model.

Any repair shop has that same manual on DVDs that also includes the latest Service Bulletins.

Service Bulletins are also available for free from some County Libraries.

But there really is no replacement for a wiring diagram from the automaker and often sold by Helms.

07-19-2010, 03:38 PM	#3
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	I'll wire your diagram..... What we really need is a new car __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

07-19-2010, 09:29 PM	#6
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	you're like a stuck record, that's what. We didn't actually rule that out if you read back, although it makes logical nonsense because you can override the relay with the switch to the left of the console -and that's still working. So even if it was stuck, we should still be able to override it. If this is a wiring issue, then the guy (yup, has to be male) who designed it should be shot..... but we're still investigating the relay issue What I love about the cellar is the wealth, variety and depth of expert knowledge there is here. What I hate about the cellar is the need for some of the people in possession of that knowledge to patronize and assume idiot-level intelligence in the questioner. And hypocrites. Didn't you just get snitty with tw for making the same point twice, CM? We can google. We can try what google suggests. We can use other search engines. We have friends in the car industry, Beest works in the car industry. We're smart enough to do plenty of research on the obvious and even the not-so-frickin-obvious before asking The Cellar. We don't tend to bother the genius that lurks here unless the obvious has failed. It didn't fucking work this time. So we expanded our horizons. Don't post snippets of the first google search you did, it's insulting. Thanks for the suggestions beyond that -we're still working on them, we'll keep you posted if you care. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

07-19-2010, 09:37 PM	#7
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Well I took it upon myself to ask a friend who is an electrical engineer. After giving him what little info I could, he repeatedly came back to the same conclusion... either the computer or a relay. Sorry I tried to help. Cannot imagine why I tried to do that for you. It won't happen again. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

07-19-2010, 11:03 PM	#8
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Monster, it might have been helpful if you'd stated in the first post what you had tried/discovered already. We were starting from zero when you apparently were already on step three or four. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-20-2010, 01:28 PM	#9
Beest Adapt and Survive Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, Mi Posts: 957	So, which maintenance manual, I see Haynes, which was the gold standard in the UK, and Chiltons, any others, any preference? Last edited by Beest; 07-20-2010 at 01:35 PM.

07-19-2010, 03:24 PM	#2
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Maybe it's not the switch, maybe the wiring to one of the doors has failed. What we really need is a wiring diagram...

07-19-2010, 04:26 PM	#4
Beest Adapt and Survive Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, Mi Posts: 957	The door ajar light acts correctly. If you are listenig to the radio and take out the key, the radio stays on until you open the door, I used this as a test of the mechanical switch that detects whether any door is open or closed and it all checked out OK, if you leave a door open the lights go off eventually anyway. Something has decided against logic to keep the lights full on no matter what, a simple relay would have been nice, but I'm guessing we're SOL there. The fuse diagram lists a front electronics module, a rear electronics module and a powertrain module.

07-20-2010, 02:29 PM	#10
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I've used Haynes and Chilton. I believe it was Chilton when I repaired the cruise control on one of my cars. The diagrams were excellent. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

07-20-2010, 10:08 PM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Ford's manual for that vehicle would be the gold standard. They are available from HelmInc.com. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-21-2010, 11:34 AM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Yes that's the one. I have them for every car I've owned, because that's the definitive source. You might be able to find the wiring diagram(s) you need online, or at the library. But automotive wiring has gotten so complicated, because of it's dependence on modules (computers), you'll probably find there are several circuits involved. That link that UT posted, describes the interrelation of the components pretty well, and some possible solutions to try, if you want to wing it. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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