Mars: One Way

[fo0hzy]

Originally Posted by tw

How many tons of materials and systems surround each sailor to protect him from a not so harsh environment? Mars makes that underwater environment equivalent to a tropical paradise.

What is the price of each pound to Mars? Something like $hundreds of thoudands or $millions per pound. How many submariners survive in a mild environment with a few hundred pounds of equipment to protect him? And no equipment to do the science.

A manned trip to Mars is about 1 year. Without protection as provided by earth for ISS, those astronauts would die prematurely. No protection solution exists yet even in theory.

Best science means humans back on earth sending machines to do most work. Even ocean science is now done by machines - not by humans. It takes too many tons to keep one man alive even in very shallow water.

Right.

A two man/woman mission to Mars is simply not going to succeed, I don't care how many pairs are launched behind them. And fiscally it is not possible anyway, so Mars will remain a dreamed-about destination for many decades.

We need to get back to the Moon. That's where science should focus.

[tw]

Originally Posted by fo0hzy

We need to get back to the Moon. That's where science should focus.

Actually we need to get back to doing the only thing that made America great - science and innovation. If that is missions to Mars, the moon, or ... does anyone know about the massive mission to Jupiter called Juno? Or the James Webb telescope? Or the so many mission to follow up on Solar Max. Or what the Japanese recently attempted? Or the AMS that is about science - not about making politicians look good.

Same applies to quantum physics where we destroyed the Super Collider - fundamental and essential science - for a political 'feel good' mission called ISS. Its not about where we should go. It is about what science is best done.

If going to the moon is important, then science that makes that necessary is also defined. It is about science. Not about glory.

Probably the greatest space science experiment has been Hubble. But Hubble is too close to earth. Which is why a most promising space research project will be the Webb telescope. The best science is done for science. And no longer deploys man in space.

[classicman]

We have been reaching out to and exploring the unknown since the beginning of mankind. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

[tw]

Amazing so much silence on a major accomplishment. The George Jr administration literally destroyed America's space program by killing the Shuttles, created a boondoggle called, Constellation, Ares, and Orion, and almost killed Hubble. The fools even annouced a 'Man to Mars' without even consulting science. As a good MBA, he did everything necessary to destroy America and its economy for his own glory and emotions.

Then someone with intelligence came to power. Fixed America's space program. A milestone was a SpaceX launch of the Dragon capsule. Maybe three more private companies are also doing what makes America great. By not doing what is taught in business schools. And by undoing the disasters created by the George Jr administration.

America in the first decade of 2000 surrendered the satellite launch business mostly to the Russians and French. America has been surrendering science to overseas nations. We have only just started to recover from ten years of pathetic leadership. Dragon and SpaceX are simply one of many examples of how America is slowly clawing its way back.

Since Limbaugh and Fox remained quiet, then many did not even understand the significance. Surprising is a silence in the Cellar. Apparently few really understood a major significance of SpaceX and other ongoing projects.

Of course, innovation can take ten years to result in actual products. Those who see reality rather than spread sheets can appreciate why America could only be richer and healthier when we canceled a dumb 'Man to Mars' and Constellation / Ares / Orion. Trophies to the low intelligence of George Jr and his administration.

We are currently undoing almost a decade of America's destruction. Including other trophies such as Mission Accomplished and the protection of bin Laden.

[glatt]

Yeah, SpaceX was cool. I watched the docking live. The splashdown was very nostalgic too. It's been decades since I'd seen one of those.

I've touched one of the Dragon capsules.

It's funny that the spy agencies just gave NASA two telescopes better than Hubble because there is no way to get them into orbit now. So they were worthless to the spy agencies and they figured "Hey, why not give them to NASA?" I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that discussion.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

It's funny that the spy agencies just gave NASA two telescopes better than Hubble because there is no way to get them into orbit now.

So many politicians complained about the cost of Hubble and the upcoming Web telescopes. These same bean counters types even destroyed something like eight major earth science satellites, in part, because they might further prove mankind is creating global warming.

Meanwhile, the NRO has more expensive technology than they can launch. Because Americans cannot throw enough money at the military. But use MBA cost controls on anything that would do innovation or advance mankind.

Well, it was worse a decade ago. Honesty now means the NRO can admit to so many technologies bought and paid for at much higher costs. And sit unused. Because if we spend more money on the military, then people will love us?

[BigV]

Originally Posted by glatt

Yeah, SpaceX was cool. I watched the docking live. The splashdown was very nostalgic too. It's been decades since I'd seen one of those.

I've touched one of the Dragon capsules.

It's funny that the spy agencies just gave NASA two telescopes better than Hubble because there is no way to get them into orbit now. So they were worthless to the spy agencies and they figured "Hey, why not give them to NASA?" I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that discussion.

They probably point the wrong way.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by BigV

They probably point the wrong way.

My understanding is that they are sitting in a wharehouse on Earth.

[BigV]

'twere a joke oriented on the CIA's desire to look down and NASA's desire to look up.

[glatt]

I figured it was a joke, but then the first time I heard this story, they didn't say the telescopes were in a warehouse, and I assumed they were in orbit, and I thought that was super cool. BUt then I later learned they were sitting in a warehouse and were just expensive paperweights. So, I clarified in case you had made the same initial false assumption I had.

Sorry for making you explain it was a joke.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

BUt then I later learned they were sitting in a warehouse and were just expensive paperweights.

They do not sit in warehouses. And are not the only 'defense' birds in similar storage. Many duplicates of so many defense satellites sit in secure clean rooms.

A difference from Hubble: its lens has a wider aperture.

Even flying is a 'secret' robotic version of the space shuttle. Unknown is how many of those are sitting is storage.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by tw

They do not sit in warehouses. And are not the only 'defense' birds in similar storage. Many duplicates of so many defense satellites sit in secure clean rooms.

A difference from Hubble: its lens has a wider aperture.

Even flying is a 'secret' robotic version of the space shuttle. Unknown is how many of those are sitting is storage.

There's quite a bit of "unknown" in that post, buddy.

[BigV]

psh... I get that *all the time*. You're special, but not in that way.

[Blueflare]

Going to America is definitely not the same as going to Mars...
The more obvious comparison is the international space station. The first people to live on the surface of Mars would effectively live on a space station, just, on the surface of a planet. And it would have to be a one way trip, because getting there and back will not feasible for a long time.
We send food and stuff to the international space station all the time. Mars is obviously WAY further but I think we would be able to do it. Meanwhile the scientists could begin the long, slow, difficult process of terraforming Mars. They may never get to come back, but they get to terraform Mars. And that is AWESOME. I refuse to believe that people cannot be found to sign up for that. I'd sign up if I thought I could be of any use.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Blueflare

We send food and stuff to the international space station all the time. Mars is obviously WAY further but I think we would be able to do it.

The ISS sits heavily protected by Earth's magnetic fields. No such protection exists on the years trip to nor on Mars. Years of human life cannot exist without that protection. Just one of too many reasons why mankind explores with machines; not with bodies.

Again, Man to Mars was a ridiculous idea promoted by ignoring scientists and realities. At this point, everyone should realize the best and most productive work is done by machines. Even astronomy not longer sends it scientists to the tops of mountains. Machines do that work.

The ISS is a classic example of $billions spent for almost a decade with zero science conducted. Almost all science in NASA's budget is done by machines. Unfortunately, due to so many manipulated by spin and emotion, we instead spend massive sums putting man in space. Therefore doing much less science.