I almost to the point.... - Page 3

Spexxvet · 02-22-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

I have two atheistic children in Catholic school. They are receiving a far superior education than their public school counterparts for about $6k each. I'll stand with UT on this. I went to a bad public school. Someone else will have to defend them.

There are good and bad public and private schools. My 3 kids have received a superior education in a public school, for $6k combined.

Happy Monkey · 02-22-2012, 06:26 PM

I and my three siblings all went to public schools, with excellent outcomes. Educationally, I'm the slacker in the family - only a bachelors' degree. One sister has a PhD, the other is working on a MD/PhD, and my brother got a Masters in Education, and is now teaching mathematics at one of those very same public schools we all went to.

If not for the No Child Left Behind/Race to the Top/Michelle Rhee crap that is now in vogue, I would have no reservation championing public over private. Hopefully that will blow over.

Clodfobble · 02-22-2012, 06:56 PM

It is also worth noting that one of the reasons private school is so much cheaper than public school is precisely because they don't have to take everyone. Kids with behavior problems and non-supportive family lives and disabilities don't get to go to private school, and they're the ones who cost the most.

Lamplighter · 02-22-2012, 07:19 PM

... and because many of them have unpaid (volunteer) staff,
such as nuns, lay people, and do not pay taxes on all school property,
receive donations, bequests, gifts in kind, and on and on,
and some "private" schools even receive government $ in various forms.

It boarders on disingenuous to compare $ costs to say private schools "cost" less.
That's almost like saying private hospitals cost less than public hospitals... until you receive the full accounting bills.

Griff · 02-22-2012, 07:52 PM

I acknowledge that Clod. I just wanted Spexx to know his assumption about Catholic Schools doesn't match reality here. Also in the interest of full disclosure, I work for a non-profit educating some of those kids, because the public system couldn't control costs. I agree with HM that NCLB is a disaster. Education should be controlled as close to the child's home as possible. I'm all for society taking an interest in education so that every child has opportunity, but would argue with folks who think football stadiums are a significant interest.

From my perspective every expansion of government has a serious cost to society. Those costs can be discussed and choices can be made on the basis of each. Public education has important benefits to society. Bailouts for car makers, banks, lenders, and homeowners do not benefit society but rather damage it by destroying the rationality of the marketplace. Every expansion of government power creates more opportunity for corruption. Look at our food supply for evidence of large corporations using their government influence to control the market. Look at Halliburton and other military contractors for war-mongering and absurd publicly financed contracts which reduce our security... sorry I got ranty but I tire of the phoney Democratic v Republican choice that is being shoved down our throats. Democratic pitchmen pimp a free ride for all and Republican's pimp a free ride for corporate America. Both gladly punish working people by destroying the value of a saved dollar and a life carefully planned and lead.

Undertoad · 02-22-2012, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

My 3 kids have received a superior education in a public school, for $6k combined.

$39,615 per year combined

Clodfobble · 02-22-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

I acknowledge that Clod. I just wanted Spexx to know his assumption about Catholic Schools doesn't match reality here. Also in the interest of full disclosure, I work for a non-profit educating some of those kids, because the public system couldn't control costs.

Oh yes, I know you understand the issues of public vs. private and mainstream vs. special education better than probably anyone else here. My comment wasn't aimed at you at all.

On the subject of religious private schools, I went to a Lutheran school from Kinder through 2nd, because my mother wanted me to start school a year early and the public schools wouldn't let her. It was a vastly superior school experience, and I suffered major culture shock when I switched to public school in 3rd grade. We had weekly chapel and learned only religious songs in music class... but it wasn't until years later that I even understood that the adults teaching us these things actually believed them. I assumed it must be like a Santa Claus thing. And the music was very pretty, after all.

glatt · 02-23-2012, 08:45 AM

I was curious about the costs here. So I looked it up. First of all, Arlington public schools are outstanding, although there is an achievement gap caused in large part by a constant influx of immigrants who just can't get up to speed on English fast enough to test well.

Arlington County spends more than any other district in the region, and is often in the top ten in the nation for its per pupil spending. This year, they spent $18,047 per pupil. So that's $36,094 for my two kids.

Last year, our family paid $5,179 in property taxes to Arlington, and since the county spends about half of its revenue on education, roughly $2,590 of my money went into the schools here.

So, the bottom line is I put $2,590 in, to get $36,094 out.

The local catholic school has a pretty good reputation, and I've known a couple kids who go there. They seem bright enough, so I figure the catholic school is doing alright too. Tuition at the catholic school is $5,743 if you are catholic or $9145 if you are not catholic. If you have two kids, you get a discount. $9962 for two catholics or $15,814 for two non-catholics.

infinite monkey · 02-23-2012, 08:50 AM

I went to Catholic elementary. In the public rural Jr Hi, we were all placed in the accelerated classes because of our elementary education. We were learning stuff in JR HI that I'd already covered in elementary. This is not to say the Jr Hi was lacking, just that we got a superior education at the catholic school.

However, this public rural school has amassed an amazing reputation, winning awards of excellence. One of my cow orkers was telling me that he knew of two people who moved into the district just for that school. It's where my nieces go, and it's amazing. There is also a huge sense of community...farmers and the like take pride in their community and their school system. It's grown to a big campus, with the jr hi now with the hs and elementaries...instead of the Jr Hi being in BFE (god i loved that old building but boy did my mom hate having to come get us after practice) and 4 elementary schools scattered throughout the district. Though smaller in student number than the local town high schools, the district covers a much larger area.

TheMercenary · 02-23-2012, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

$39,615 per year combined

Where does this number come from, if it is the cost of the education in public school it proves throwing money at it problem does not work.

Undertoad · 02-23-2012, 09:04 AM

Divided by three it's the average per-pupil in southeastern PA.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-23-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

I went to a bad public school. Someone else will have to defend them.

But you turned out to be one of PA's, if not America's, most outstanding citizens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

It is also worth noting that one of the reasons private school is so much cheaper than public school is precisely because they don't have to take everyone. Kids with behavior problems and non-supportive family lives and disabilities don't get to go to private school, and they're the ones who cost the most.

And those numbers are increasing at an alarming rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

...We had weekly chapel and learned only religious songs in music class... but it wasn't until years later that I even understood that the adults teaching us these things actually believed them. I assumed it must be like a Santa Claus thing. And the music was very pretty, after all.

I thought every kid felt that way about their early exposure, until I met a few Catholic girls who were so traumatized by teaching Nuns, they bought the whole spiel literally.

Griff · 02-25-2012, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But you turned out to be one of PA's, if not America's, most outstanding citizens.

You really know how to hurt a sometime anarchist.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-25-2012, 06:02 PM

It serves you right for setting the bar so ridiculously high for the rest of us.

Spexxvet · 02-28-2012, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

Democratic pitchmen pimp a free ride for all

Odd, that's not the message I get.

02-22-2012, 06:26 PM	#32
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	I and my three siblings all went to public schools, with excellent outcomes. Educationally, I'm the slacker in the family - only a bachelors' degree. One sister has a PhD, the other is working on a MD/PhD, and my brother got a Masters in Education, and is now teaching mathematics at one of those very same public schools we all went to. If not for the No Child Left Behind/Race to the Top/Michelle Rhee crap that is now in vogue, I would have no reservation championing public over private. Hopefully that will blow over. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

02-22-2012, 06:56 PM	#33
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	It is also worth noting that one of the reasons private school is so much cheaper than public school is precisely because they don't have to take everyone. Kids with behavior problems and non-supportive family lives and disabilities don't get to go to private school, and they're the ones who cost the most. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

02-22-2012, 07:52 PM	#35
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I acknowledge that Clod. I just wanted Spexx to know his assumption about Catholic Schools doesn't match reality here. Also in the interest of full disclosure, I work for a non-profit educating some of those kids, because the public system couldn't control costs. I agree with HM that NCLB is a disaster. Education should be controlled as close to the child's home as possible. I'm all for society taking an interest in education so that every child has opportunity, but would argue with folks who think football stadiums are a significant interest. From my perspective every expansion of government has a serious cost to society. Those costs can be discussed and choices can be made on the basis of each. Public education has important benefits to society. Bailouts for car makers, banks, lenders, and homeowners do not benefit society but rather damage it by destroying the rationality of the marketplace. Every expansion of government power creates more opportunity for corruption. Look at our food supply for evidence of large corporations using their government influence to control the market. Look at Halliburton and other military contractors for war-mongering and absurd publicly financed contracts which reduce our security... sorry I got ranty but I tire of the phoney Democratic v Republican choice that is being shoved down our throats. Democratic pitchmen pimp a free ride for all and Republican's pimp a free ride for corporate America. Both gladly punish working people by destroying the value of a saved dollar and a life carefully planned and lead. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

02-25-2012, 06:02 PM	#44
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	It serves you right for setting the bar so ridiculously high for the rest of us. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-22-2012, 07:19 PM	#34
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	... and because many of them have unpaid (volunteer) staff, such as nuns, lay people, and do not pay taxes on all school property, receive donations, bequests, gifts in kind, and on and on, and some "private" schools even receive government $ in various forms. It boarders on disingenuous to compare $ costs to say private schools "cost" less. That's almost like saying private hospitals cost less than public hospitals... until you receive the full accounting bills.

02-23-2012, 08:45 AM	#38
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I was curious about the costs here. So I looked it up. First of all, Arlington public schools are outstanding, although there is an achievement gap caused in large part by a constant influx of immigrants who just can't get up to speed on English fast enough to test well. Arlington County spends more than any other district in the region, and is often in the top ten in the nation for its per pupil spending. This year, they spent $18,047 per pupil. So that's $36,094 for my two kids. Last year, our family paid $5,179 in property taxes to Arlington, and since the county spends about half of its revenue on education, roughly $2,590 of my money went into the schools here. So, the bottom line is I put $2,590 in, to get $36,094 out. The local catholic school has a pretty good reputation, and I've known a couple kids who go there. They seem bright enough, so I figure the catholic school is doing alright too. Tuition at the catholic school is $5,743 if you are catholic or $9145 if you are not catholic. If you have two kids, you get a discount. $9962 for two catholics or $15,814 for two non-catholics.

02-23-2012, 08:50 AM	#39
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	I went to Catholic elementary. In the public rural Jr Hi, we were all placed in the accelerated classes because of our elementary education. We were learning stuff in JR HI that I'd already covered in elementary. This is not to say the Jr Hi was lacking, just that we got a superior education at the catholic school. However, this public rural school has amassed an amazing reputation, winning awards of excellence. One of my cow orkers was telling me that he knew of two people who moved into the district just for that school. It's where my nieces go, and it's amazing. There is also a huge sense of community...farmers and the like take pride in their community and their school system. It's grown to a big campus, with the jr hi now with the hs and elementaries...instead of the Jr Hi being in BFE (god i loved that old building but boy did my mom hate having to come get us after practice) and 4 elementary schools scattered throughout the district. Though smaller in student number than the local town high schools, the district covers a much larger area.

02-23-2012, 09:04 AM	#41
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Divided by three it's the average per-pupil in southeastern PA.

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