Brexit

[Flint]

Originally Posted by DanaC

and they've concluded this is complicated.

'Nobody knew health care could be so complicated'

[henry quirk]

"Brexit is already in trouble."

Of course it is. The Powers that Be didn't want it, don't want it, will complexify it and drag it out right up to the exit date, and what Britain will be stuck with is a faux exit (where the Brits lose power in the EU but remain bound up in obligations to the EU).

Blame The Powers that Be, not the principle.

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"No one has yet posted one fact that justifies Brexit."

Principles (like individual and national sovereignty) don't count, I guess.

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"we'd have been better off going for a clean break from the start and planning for that."

Yes. 40 years of interconnection was never gonna be done away with easily or painlessly, but it coulda been cleanly (still could, but probably won't).

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"They had two years to come up with a plan - and they fucked it up"

Yep, cuz -- again -- 'The Powers that Be didn't want it, don't want it, will complexify it and drag it out right up to the exit date'. They fucked it up, are fucking it up, on purpose.

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''Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.'

It's not. Another example of 'leaders' complexifyin' shit to get what they want (and to hell with what you want [or need]).

[DanaC]

lol

Owww.

[DanaC]

We seem to be in a race for which of our nations is going to face total constitutional crisis first.

Right now i think we are in the lead

[sexobon]

If the United Kingdom could sing to the European Union, the song might go something like this:

[xoxoxoBruce]

[Rhianne]

Again, London (nor any of the nations that make up the UK) are or ever have been part of Schengen.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Rhianne

Again, London (nor any of the nations that make up the UK) are or ever have been part of Schengen.

From that citation:

The UK formally requested to participate in certain provisions of the Schengen acquis

At many external border crossing points are special lanes for EU, EEA and Swiss citizens since all these (including British citizens covered by Schengen) require less documentation. That will change when Brexit completely removes Britain from Schengen.

Once Britain withdraws from Schengen (Sexobon again fails to read his own ciations), then so many EU citizens, who make a British economy so vibrant, must leave London or constantly renew visas. And British citizens must apply in advance for travel documents to the rest of Europe.

Business in Europe will remain easy and flexible. Britain must withdraw from all Schengen options putting more restrictions on what was once a vibrant economy.

Britain is in Schengen. But the British had some border controls (ie to protect Britain from rabies). Visas were not required - making travel and conducting business easy. All that gets complicated and restrictive once Brexit happens. British citizens will no longer be trusted in the EU. EU citizen must beg permission (get visas) to work in London.

More reasons why Brexit obviously will only harm the British economy.

Rhianne - Britain was part of Schengen - that permitted productive economic activity with the EU. Britain only opted out of a few aspects of Schengen - for security reasons. Brexit means Britain must withdraw from Schengen (because Britain was in Schengen) - causing economic harm.

[tw]

Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.

Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.

Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.

Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.

Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.

Sexobon, the UK was part of and must withdraw from Schengen.

If not part of Schengen, then why will all Schengen rules, that make British travel easy in the EU, now be removed? Because Britain was part of (but did not fully implement) Schengen. Sexobon only read a soundbyte looking for an excuse to attack. He again failed to learn facts.

Brexit means Britain must withdraw from Schengen - which creates problems for the Ireland / Northern Ireland border. A border that was open due Britain being part of Schengen.

[sexobon]

Tw, the UK had opted out of Schengen.

Tw, the UK had opted out of Schengen.

Tw, the UK had opted out of Schengen.

Tw, the UK had opted out of Schengen.

Tw, the UK had opted out of Schengen.

Tw, the UK had opted out of Schengen.

[tw]

The incompetent Prime Minister May is fighting for her job - because Brexit is a disaster created only to empower extremists (ie Boris Johnson). There was no plan. Brexit can only happen with serious damage to the British economy. That was obvious two years ago.

Even the most economically naive in Britain are finally learning that Brexit people were lying. They had no plan. They really did not think it would happen. They must now deny (more lies) the job losses and financial punishment that must happen.

May's job is on the line. Brexit was so dumb that it could not be negotiated in two years. British citizens deserve a hard Brexit. The exodus will begin next month.

[Rhianne]

I don't necessarily disagree with your views and I certainly don't intend to continue with my pedantry but I think you might be mixing up Schengen with the relevant aspects of Maastricht (The Maastricht Treaty or Treaty of Maastricht or whatever they called it) from the early 1990s.

[xoxoxoBruce]

and...

[tw]

Originally Posted by Rhianne

... but I think you might be mixing up Schengen with the relevant aspects of Maastricht (The Maastricht Treaty or Treaty of Maastricht or whatever they called it) from the early 1990s.

Much was in common with Schengen and Maastricht. How much different are the details? I am not sure, but it is irrelevant. Maastricht no longer applies. Maastricht gave London so much of its vitality. Schengen is the treaty that continues or expanded it. With a hard Brexit, all the advantages of Maastricht and Schengen are lost. Economic downturn is inevitable.

Discussed are a disaster from a hard Brexit. That is worse case. No EU country should agree to a soft Brexit. What will happen in Ireland (the so called backstop) should result in massive pain and economic disaster to an interconnected Ireland / Northern Ireland economy. No problem. The so many brainwashed midlanders don't know and don't care. They would rather believe Boris Johnson had a plan and was working in their interest. Just like saying Trump is working for everyone but himself. Never happen.

Brexit is a disaster for the British middle class and working class - who have no idea how destructive it will be. Large amounts of industrial production must leave Britain to survive - if Brexit happens. Unfortunately due to no intelligent thought and a deal that never had a hope in hell, Brexit will happen and will be destructive.

Only one question remains. How destructive - both short term and long term?

[DanaC]

London will not cease being a vibrant world city because of brexit.

The demographics may shift - certainly, but London is a world city with inhabitants from every part of the world. It was ever thus.

Brexit will almost certainly have a profound impact on London's ability to act as a financial centre and may well lose a proportion of its current EU residents - but it will not stop being a world city.

I am shocked that Dana C does not see what is clearly obvious. No Schengen means London will no longer be the cosmopolitan town it used to be. The exodus will take about 10 years.

London has been a cosmopolitan city for a very, very long time.

The rest of the country will suffer more I think.