A few thoughts on the P2P jihad - Page 3

SteveDallas · 07-24-2003, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Uryoces
They badger, threaten, and bar their customers from exercising their legal rights. Their behavior should qualify them for RICO status.

That's the whole crux of the argument of the 2 universities that are fighting: they don't consider the subpoenas legitimate because they were not issued by a court, but just by the RIAA. (My understanding, and don't hold me to this cause it's been a looong day, is that the DCMA speciifically authorizes this, and it's IMO one of the worst parts of the law.)

Oh, the other issue is jurisdictional.. I believe they said they'd comply with a properly issued subpoena from a Massachusetts court.

What I don't know is, what makes them think they can when when Verizon couldn't?

xoxoxoBruce · 07-24-2003, 08:47 PM

Maybe because Verizon is interstate commerce.

07-24-2003, 11:19 PM

Uh, fair use doesn't say shit about your friends. At all. You can use work for parody, you can make a copy of a purchased copyrighted material for your own backup purposes. You <b>cannot</b> redistribute in any way unless you're licensed to do so.

hot_pastrami · 07-28-2003, 05:33 PM

Here is an interesting proposed solution... anybody got a spare $2 million they can loan me?

elSicomoro · 07-28-2003, 07:02 PM

Dave might.

russotto · 07-29-2003, 10:44 AM

Here's how to get $2 million:

MBNA owns about six kabillion credit card issuers, and if you have halfway-decent credit they're always peppering you with offers.

What you do, is accept an offer for a card for each of them. Then call MBNA and have them consolidate the credit lines into one card. Keep this up until you have a $2 million credit limit. Now wait until they have one of those promotional offers where you pay no interest and no transaction fees for 6 months. Borrow out that $2 million and invest it, and hope you make that profit before the first interest payment becomes due :-)

Tobiasly · 08-05-2003, 01:41 PM

I was thinking a bit more about this last night. So the RIAA is going after downloaders, too.

So if someone gets "busted", what's to stop them from simply going out and buying a copy of the CD (or single) they downloaded? Doesn't fair use cover the right to obtain a backup copy to works you paid for?

Undertoad · 08-05-2003, 01:45 PM

Yes and moreover, if something is later found to not be fair use, how can the consumer possibly be held at fault? If they quote song lyrics in the local paper, do the cops go around busting people who might be readers? (Do they put plainclothes offers near paper boxes? Do they put flash-bombs in the stacks in the hopes that readers' entire stacks get burned?)

elSicomoro · 08-10-2003, 02:41 PM

The EFF has a database where you can check your IP addy to see if a subpoena is headed your way.

vsp · 08-10-2003, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
The EFF has a database where you can check your IP addy to see if a subpoena is headed your way.

Which is great, if you have a static IP.

Quote:

Originally posted by tobiasly
So if someone gets "busted", what's to stop them from simply going out and buying a copy of the CD (or single) they downloaded? Doesn't fair use cover the right to obtain a backup copy to works you paid for?

According to the RIAA, downloading MP3s and obtaining a backup copy are not equivalent. Their argument is simple: the person providing the MP3s did not have the rights to distribute them, and thus you are receiving "stolen" intellectual property. If you want a backup copy, you have to either make it yourself (while you still have the technological capabilities to do so) or deal directly with the point-of-purchase retailer (and good luck convincing the drones at Best Buy that your CD was defective when you got it).

We're all free to disagree with that Draconian standpoint, as well we should. But how many of us have a spare fifty grand or so lying around to fight them in court, should our numbers come up in the Subpoena Lottery?

russotto · 08-11-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vsp

According to the RIAA, downloading MP3s and obtaining a backup copy are not equivalent. Their argument is simple: the person providing the MP3s did not have the rights to distribute them, and thus you are receiving "stolen" intellectual property.

As usual, the RIAA is full of feces.

#1, the term "Intellectual Property" refers in this case to copyrights. Not the copyrighted work, but the copyright itself. There is no "stolen" intellectual property except by fraud.

#2, this argument has been tried and gone all the way up to the Supreme Court. Infringing copies of copyrighted works are not stolen property.

Don't buy RIAA music. Not from stores, not from iTunes, not from buymusic, not from anywhere. Doing so is merely forging your own chains.

vsp · 08-11-2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by russotto
#1, the term "Intellectual Property" refers in this case to copyrights. Not the copyrighted work, but the copyright itself. There is no "stolen" intellectual property except by fraud.

#2, this argument has been tried and gone all the way up to the Supreme Court. Infringing copies of copyrighted works are not stolen property.

I will note that the above were my paraphrasings, not their actual statements. Replace "stolen" with "infringing" or "prosecutable," as desired. If the RIAA site wasn't perpetually in the process of being hacked, slashdotted or both, I could dig up their own language more easily.

Regardless, you get the gist. Infringement != theft, but given the potential penalties being tossed around for the former, you might actually get off lighter committing the latter.

Quote:

Don't buy RIAA music. Not from stores, not from iTunes, not from buymusic, not from anywhere. Doing so is merely forging your own chains. [/b]

Agreed.

JeepNGeorge · 08-12-2003, 03:48 AM

Silly RIAA.

Lets sue the people who buy your product.

I pesonally use Kazaa Lite to download rare tracks that are not easily obtained from the so called music stores. So you want to make me a criminal because I my goal is to have every johnny cash recording ever made???? Why don't you use your vast resources and put an end to (insert world/us problem here). Crack mothers are spitting out babies like an ATM machine, but you want to preach to me what is right and wrong? NO You want to protect your own greedy selfs. You cheated the artists into giving their first male born child in return for a record contract, and then tell them how/what to sing. and now we have found a way to cheat you....Isn't their honor among theifs?????

Most artists barely see a dime from record sells. URL=http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/business/entertainment/forbes_concertcash_030711.html](see abc news)[/url] The real money is in concert tours and merchandising...why is ozzy on tv???? Why is metallica coming out with a video game? because the riaa gets the money from cd sales and they have to find something to support their habits.

When a product in the marketplace isn't selling well, what do other companies do? Most try to make their product better.

Remember the day when you bought an album that had impressive cover art, full lyrics and usually fun stuff that made you want to buy the album (remember pink floyds wish you were here brown plain wrapper. or the fact that black sabbath's debut album was realesed on friday feb. 13th.) Instead your lazy greedy bastards barely put the track listings on the cd. And heaven forbid your a kid who doesn't live in a major metropolis and your only source of music is the local censored wal-mart racks.

If the product is bland and isn't worth the value you charge for it Why should I buy it. I listen to it on the radio for free all day long, but I can't listen to it on my computer all day long, unless I listen to something like spinner.com?

Granted it's hard to download a new ford truck from the internet, but the principal is the same. If Ford or any manufacturer didn't come out with something new, wouldn't you just use your old one until it wore out? (that is if they didn't design them to break down. They aren't in the automobile business ford (and every car maker) is in the parts business.)

Give me something that is worth the $20 you want and I'll start buying again.

Give me something that isn't total crap and sounds like everything else out there and I'll be back.

Hell charge me an extra quarter more for my blank media so I can record my own songs my own way.

Until then you can shove my IP Address, well there might be kids listening.

I'm just glad the RIAA isn't involved in the movie business. I'd hate to be sued cause I watched it on a friends hbo subscription instead of paying $12 to watch it at the theater.

08-12-2003, 06:39 AM

Er, if you're Metallica or Ozzy (who's fucking a record exec), you have such a good record deal that you probably get quite a bit of royalties. It's the bands like Coldplay and Incubus and whatnot that are getting eaten alive. That's why I've seen Incubus live five times. Because they gotta tour that much to make a living.

Undertoad · 08-12-2003, 07:59 AM

I agree Jeep-man: if I made the rules, if an album or game goes out of print it should become legal to copy. If you can't even get it legally and nobody's seeking to make current money, it should be freely shareable. All those old game ROMs, all those old Procol Harum albums, shareable.

07-24-2003, 08:47 PM	#32
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Maybe because Verizon is interstate commerce. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-28-2003, 05:33 PM	#34
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	Here is an interesting proposed solution... anybody got a spare $2 million they can loan me? __________________ Hot Pastrami!

07-24-2003, 11:19 PM	#33
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Uh, fair use doesn't say shit about your friends. At all. You can use work for parody, you can make a copy of a purchased copyrighted material for your own backup purposes. You <b>cannot</b> redistribute in any way unless you're licensed to do so.

07-28-2003, 07:02 PM	#35
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Dave might.

07-29-2003, 10:44 AM	#36
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Here's how to get $2 million: MBNA owns about six kabillion credit card issuers, and if you have halfway-decent credit they're always peppering you with offers. What you do, is accept an offer for a card for each of them. Then call MBNA and have them consolidate the credit lines into one card. Keep this up until you have a $2 million credit limit. Now wait until they have one of those promotional offers where you pay no interest and no transaction fees for 6 months. Borrow out that $2 million and invest it, and hope you make that profit before the first interest payment becomes due :-)

08-05-2003, 01:41 PM	#37
Tobiasly hot Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Jeffersonville, IN (near Louisville) Posts: 892	I was thinking a bit more about this last night. So the RIAA is going after downloaders, too. So if someone gets "busted", what's to stop them from simply going out and buying a copy of the CD (or single) they downloaded? Doesn't fair use cover the right to obtain a backup copy to works you paid for?

08-05-2003, 01:45 PM	#38
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Yes and moreover, if something is later found to not be fair use, how can the consumer possibly be held at fault? If they quote song lyrics in the local paper, do the cops go around busting people who might be readers? (Do they put plainclothes offers near paper boxes? Do they put flash-bombs in the stacks in the hopes that readers' entire stacks get burned?)

08-10-2003, 02:41 PM	#39
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The EFF has a database where you can check your IP addy to see if a subpoena is headed your way.

08-12-2003, 03:48 AM	#43
JeepNGeorge Hand-of-Kindness Extender Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Where am I? Posts: 139	Silly RIAA. Lets sue the people who buy your product. I pesonally use Kazaa Lite to download rare tracks that are not easily obtained from the so called music stores. So you want to make me a criminal because I my goal is to have every johnny cash recording ever made???? Why don't you use your vast resources and put an end to (insert world/us problem here). Crack mothers are spitting out babies like an ATM machine, but you want to preach to me what is right and wrong? NO You want to protect your own greedy selfs. You cheated the artists into giving their first male born child in return for a record contract, and then tell them how/what to sing. and now we have found a way to cheat you....Isn't their honor among theifs????? Most artists barely see a dime from record sells. URL=http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/business/entertainment/forbes_concertcash_030711.html](see abc news)[/url] The real money is in concert tours and merchandising...why is ozzy on tv???? Why is metallica coming out with a video game? because the riaa gets the money from cd sales and they have to find something to support their habits. When a product in the marketplace isn't selling well, what do other companies do? Most try to make their product better. Remember the day when you bought an album that had impressive cover art, full lyrics and usually fun stuff that made you want to buy the album (remember pink floyds wish you were here brown plain wrapper. or the fact that black sabbath's debut album was realesed on friday feb. 13th.) Instead your lazy greedy bastards barely put the track listings on the cd. And heaven forbid your a kid who doesn't live in a major metropolis and your only source of music is the local censored wal-mart racks. If the product is bland and isn't worth the value you charge for it Why should I buy it. I listen to it on the radio for free all day long, but I can't listen to it on my computer all day long, unless I listen to something like spinner.com? Granted it's hard to download a new ford truck from the internet, but the principal is the same. If Ford or any manufacturer didn't come out with something new, wouldn't you just use your old one until it wore out? (that is if they didn't design them to break down. They aren't in the automobile business ford (and every car maker) is in the parts business.) Give me something that is worth the $20 you want and I'll start buying again. Give me something that isn't total crap and sounds like everything else out there and I'll be back. Hell charge me an extra quarter more for my blank media so I can record my own songs my own way. Until then you can shove my IP Address, well there might be kids listening. I'm just glad the RIAA isn't involved in the movie business. I'd hate to be sued cause I watched it on a friends hbo subscription instead of paying $12 to watch it at the theater.

08-12-2003, 06:39 AM	#44
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Er, if you're Metallica or Ozzy (who's fucking a record exec), you have such a good record deal that you probably get quite a bit of royalties. It's the bands like Coldplay and Incubus and whatnot that are getting eaten alive. That's why I've seen Incubus live five times. Because they gotta tour that much to make a living.

08-12-2003, 07:59 AM	#45
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I agree Jeep-man: if I made the rules, if an album or game goes out of print it should become legal to copy. If you can't even get it legally and nobody's seeking to make current money, it should be freely shareable. All those old game ROMs, all those old Procol Harum albums, shareable.

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