long cut and paste

[Clodfobble]

You don't know that - can we stick to the facts?

Actually, we do know that--in the case of Carla Faye Tucker, she openly admitted that she was laughing gleefully as she hacked one particular man to death with a pickaxe, and furthermore claimed to the end that she had an orgasm each time the pick went in.

I've made fun of the woman before, and I'll make fun of her again. Her "conversion" was 100% pure publicity stunt.

[Catwoman]

And the other 151?

[Beestie]

Originally posted by Catwoman
And the other 151?

He didn't mock the other 151.

[Catwoman]

No, I meant you don't know that the other 151 mocked their victims.

Originally posted by Beestieremember that we are talking about bloodthirsty murderers who, in all likelihood mocked their victims pleas for mercy.

[Beestie]

Originally posted by Catwoman
No, I meant you don't know that the other 151 mocked their victims.

I know what you meant. I just think we've hit a wall in this discussion. The other 151 were convicted by a jury of their peers and sentenced to death.

Your original point requires that Bush had a role in the 152 executions. My point is that he had NO role - commuting a death sentence requires a finding of a) a flaw in the judicial process or b) new evidence (DNA or new witness, etc.) that exonerates the convicted. The only thing that happened in the CFT case was her so-called religious conversion. Had GWB commuted the sentence of an unpopular male serial rapist/murderer on the basis of his pre-execution religious conversion, folks would be accusing him of carving out exceptions for like-minded Christians and of thumbing his nose at the legal system.

Carla Faye Tucker through her phony conversion played the media like a violin and many people swallowed (and, apparently, are still swallowing) the hook. Don't feel bad, tho, she fooled a lot of other people too - some of whom are in little peices now.

[lookout123]

Originally posted by Catwoman
I see your point, glatt, but wouldn't you agree that for him to do nothing (and then ridicule) is equally as diabolic as if he had ordered the profligate killings?

Why is that diabolic? to ridicule them in a situation where it could be reported, if true, is just plain stupid. to the surprise of very few in here id on't see what the big deal is about the record number of executions. if they all had trials, were convicted, had a chance for appeal, etc. they paid their sentence.

[Catwoman]

I am not concerned about the individual matter of CFT. I don't know enough about it, and as I am vehemently opposed to the death penalty I don't think she should have died regardless of religious conviction. But that is irrelevant.

GWB presided over 152 killings. His lack of preventative action indicates approval and allowance.

And lookout, if a record number of executions goes unnoticed and unquestioned, what kind of democracy do we live in? Surely it is better to renounce Bush for his over-zealousness in authorising these executions (which by his lack of veto, he has done) than to simply assume the jury was right in all cases?

[jinx]

Originally posted by Beestie

Carla Faye Tucker through her phony conversion played the media like a violin and many people swallowed (and, apparently, are still swallowing) the hook. Don't feel bad, tho, she fooled a lot of other people too - some of whom are in little peices now.

I don't think her conversion was phony at all. Prison, and death row especially I would imagine, is a pretty popular place to find Jesus.

[lookout123]

tex watson, one of the sharon tate murderers, became a christian and actually led a prison ministry for a very long time, but i don't think he ever tried to use "his change" to get out of prison.

[Clodfobble]

Surely it is better to renounce Bush for his over-zealousness in authorising these executions (which by his lack of veto, he has done) than to simply assume the jury was right in all cases?

Look, he doesn't have that power of veto. Most of the people executed were convicted before he was even governor, they just happened to exhaust their appeals process while he was in office.

You sound like what you really expected of him was work to change the law and abolish the death penalty in Texas (which is the only way he could theoretically have stopped these executions.) Which obviously he isn't going to do because he supports the death penalty. Condemn him for the fact that he's pro-DP, if that's what you'd like to do, but the fact that more executions took place than normal is completely and totally separate from him and irrelevant.

[OnyxCougar]

If I was governor of a state, and people came up for pardon in front of me for the death penalty, and there is no new evidence or faulty legal procedure, I would surpass Dub's record. I wouldn't mock them (publicly), but that's just courtesy.

I am Pro-DP, and have no problem executing people who have been found guilty by a jury, and sentenced to death by the society the flaunted and inflicted stress upon, both by their actions and economically.

I agree Dub is a backward fella, but if someone breaks a law and gets the DP, then fry them. Justice includes punishment for the breaking of laws. *shrug*


Edit to add: Our Justice system may not be perfect, but it's all we got.

[tw]

In a curious sidebar, Son of Sam who terrorize NYC nightlife and murdered numerous young people was up for parole. He was not sentenced to death. But he refused parole saying someone like him should never be allowed out of prison considering what he had done.

[richlevy]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I wouldn't mock them (publicly), but that's just courtesy.

[size=1]SIZE]

No, it's not lack of courtesy, it callousness. When murderers are sentenced, the jury looks for words or actions that show some sense of remorse or the existence of a conscience. The ones you don't want walking on the street are the ones who show no emotions or mock their victims.

GWB was enforcing the law. He had the right and duty as he saw fit. However, if he really did as he was accused and mocked the woman whose execution he approved, then that shows he does not have the capacity to understand the consequences of his actions.

If that account is true, and unless there was some extenuating circumstance like shock or extreme grief, then the man was behaving like a sociopath.

BTW, I would like to see some additional confirmation of that incident. Was there video?

Originally posted by richlevy


BTW, I would like to see some additional confirmation of that incident. Was there video?

Not a video, but you can get the picture and quote here:

http://www.ccadp.org/bushkills.htm

Technical point: According to Texas law, the govener CAN commute a sentence of death unless expressly prevented from doing so by the Texas Board of Parole in an individual case. I can find no statistic on how many of those cases in which GW Jr. had that option. He might have been able to commute every single one of them - or none. The fact remains that he publicly ridiculed a condemned woman's plea for clemency. Whether you believe in the death penalty or not, I would hope that you believe justice be given out impartially. Ridicule does not befit the govener of one of our States, much less the President of our Country; nor does it add to the respect due our system of justice. Bush's show of persuing his lips and imitating the prisoner made a mockery of our system by its very act.

[Catwoman]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

You sound like what you really expected of him was work to change the law and abolish the death penalty in Texas (which is the only way he could theoretically have stopped these executions.) Which obviously he isn't going to do because he supports the death penalty. Condemn him for the fact that he's pro-DP, if that's what you'd like to do, but the fact that more executions took place than normal is completely and totally separate from him and irrelevant.

I condemn GWB for being pro-death.