Scare yourself

[Skunks]

Quoth (sayeth?) the Toad:

To my mind, militant Islamism is more of an offense to humanity than racism; and to offend people from other societies in the name of safety less of an offense than having thousands of people rudely killed in the name of a religious power grab.

Let's agree to disagree, then; I don't think that terrorism is a valid justification for broad stereotypes and bigotry. To my mind, it doesn't count as a "win" if, by fighting, you lower yourself to the level of the other side. Offending people in the name of safety can be justified only if you offend people equally, disregarding race/age/gender/etc.

Indiscriminate or unsatisfactorily specific killing (guilt by association, broad and subjective guidelines, etc) is the hallmark of terrorists. Indiscriminate or unsatisfactorily specific interrogation & incarceration is the hallmark of fascists and tyrants.

Both suck. One might suck less, but I don't think it sucks less enough.

[jaguar]

It's complicated. It is very hard to ignore the fact that 14 Syrians on 1 way tickets are far more likely to be terrorists in this day and age than an elderly white grandma or a white businessman. Finding ways of addressing this without resorting to a racist legal base is difficult. My feeling is that inside the various bodies responsible for this stuff they couldn't give a damn about the racist angle, they've got a job to do, they profile, if the profile leans towards a race, so be it, fuck the legality, they've got a job to do and largely, that works. Sure it's unfair against the devout muslim who happens to be moving to NY but life is unfair, get used to it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Skunks

To my mind, it doesn't count as a "win" if, by fighting, you lower yourself to the level of the other side.

That's a very noble position,.....until you lose. :p

Jag's got it right. :thumpsup:

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Racism, in the USA, is yesterday's problem; militant Islam is what made race irrelevant in America on 9/12/01 and a few months after. Did you know that not one Arab was killed in retaliatory anger in the USA?

Wow...never thought I'd have a jaw dropping moment with you UT, but here it is.

But that's ok: I'll still be on the lookout for someone who hates me bad enough to repeat what they did to James Byrd...and don't think that it won't happen again. Don't believe that for a SECOND, for as long as there is that type of hatred out there, it's bound to happen again.

Oh and as far as who WAS injured/killed after 9/11, it happened to be people who were THOUGHT to be Arab, so isn't the intention just as bad as the action?

[Undertoad]

One single and very unfortunate Sikh.

Not bad for what, 300 million of us? People forget the post-event unity... what it felt like, what it brought about, how it wasn't all bad, and what it will be like after the next attack. Our collective memory is amazingly short.

The very reddest of redneck Alabama crackers and the blackest ace of spaces in Harlem will fight the common enemy together hand in hand... it is bred into us as a people. We are Americans and at the end of the day I am sure it is what we will do.

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

One single and very unfortunate Sikh.

Not bad for what, 300 million of us? People forget the post-event unity... what it felt like, what it brought about, how it wasn't all bad, and what it will be like after the next attack. Our collective memory is amazingly short.

I guess I don't understand how the intent of people purposely going out to do harm to Arabs should be overlooked just b/c actual Arabs were not harmed.

The very reddest of redneck Alabama crackers and the blackest ace of spaces in Harlem will fight the common enemy together hand in hand... it is bred into us as a people. We are Americans and at the end of the day I am sure it is what we will do.

Hm...you honestly think so UT? Better ask some black folk about that and then get back to me.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

Hm...you honestly think so UT? Better ask some black folk about that and then get back to me.

Well, if not, then get back to me with something more important. I'm sorry LadySyc but with all due respect if the Black Community doesn't regard the terrorists as a common enemy worthy of uniting the 'Bama cracker with the Harlem Brother then that's fucked up. I know plenty of 'Bama crackers who would embrace the brothers from Harlem to fight the good fight against those who would destroy America.

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Well, if not, then get back to me with something more important.

M'kay...

I'm sorry LadySyc but with all due respect if the Black Community doesn't regard the terrorists as a common enemy worthy of uniting the 'Bama cracker with the Harlem Brother then that's fucked up.

Then it's just going to have to be fucked up, isn't it? You can't sit there and honestly expect every black person to fight side by side with someone that some already feel is "the enemy". Especially when this has already been done before (prior wars where blacks fought with whites for a "common goal" only to be treated like shit when the dust settled). Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you, but for some blacks, that's just the truth.

I know plenty of 'Bama crackers who would embrace the brothers from Harlem to fight the good fight against those who would destroy America.

And I know plenty of "brothas" who would tell those "crackas" to go fuck themselves and fight their own war.

Beestie, as far as some blacks are concerened, America has already been destroyed. She destroyed herself WAYYYY before 9/11.

Why Blacks Oppose and Fight War:
http://tinyurl.com/5gv39

Not All Blacks Say 'No' to Iraq War:
http://www.namibian.com.na/2003/marc...3C5B1CF2A.html

Both sides.

[russotto]

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

Then it's just going to have to be fucked up, isn't it? You can't sit there and honestly expect every black person to fight side by side with someone that some already feel is "the enemy". Especially when this has already been done before (prior wars where blacks fought with whites for a "common goal" only to be treated like shit when the dust settled). Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you, but for some blacks, that's just the truth.

And I know plenty of "brothas" who would tell those "crackas" to go fuck themselves and fight their own war.

Okay, fine. You want it that way, we white folk can play it that way too. Only there's still a shitload more of us white folk, so maybe you might want to reconsider the idea of taking someone's offered olive branch and shoving it up their ass.

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by russotto

Okay, fine. You want it that way, we white folk can play it that way too. Only there's still a shitload more of us white folk, so maybe you might want to reconsider the idea of taking someone's offered olive branch and shoving it up their ass.

*laughing* Ah yes...the olive branch which turns into the knife in the back when the dust settles. Yeah..sounds like a GREAT plan.

[jaguar]

I'm tempted to quote UT
"racism isn't a problem in the US"

[lookout123]

racism will always be a problem as long as we have individuals (of all races, colors, creeds) that choose to hold too tightly to past wrongs. as long as there are people who pride themselves on being different or separate there will be someone who dislikes them for being different and separate.
Life rule #1: People suck
Life rule #2: Refer to rule #1 then get on with life

[DanaC]

"*laughing* Ah yes...the olive branch which turns into the knife in the back when the dust settles. Yeah..sounds like a GREAT plan"

Well said Lady Syc.

And Lookout racism will always be a problem when power is invested disproportionately to one race to the detriment of another.

[lookout123]

Dana - if we were all the exact same color, had the same religion, spoke the same language, etc... we would still have an ism to separate us. people in groups will always fragment out in factions and create bitter rivalries. it is human nature and is completely unavoidable until the human race is extinct.

that being said - racism continues because of an unwillingness of people on all sides to let go of the past. i've said it before the only way to end racism is for us all to screw until we are the same color... i'm willing to do my part for humanity, so let the screwing commence!

[DanaC]

Lookout, your first point I agree with. People have a natural tendency to seek likeness and fear difference and to use that as a basis for factionalism...

Your second point I take issue with. The problem isnt that people refuse to let go the wrongs and resentments of the past. the problem is that the wrongs and resentments are not a problem of the past they are a problem of the present. The point is that racism *does* exist(for whatever reason) and as such demands a response. To hold ones hand up and say "That's it I will no longer bear a grudge against those who enslaved my great great grandparents " is all very well if the people who enslaved your great great grandparents werent still treating you as persona non grata and discriminating against you in a myriad different ways, some against the law and some not. If you had equal power in this new relationship that may allow you to let bygones be bygones but if you havent equal power within this modern relationship it quickly becomes apparent that the bygones havent in fact gone