DIY Illegal Immigration, The "safe" way - Page 3

xoxoxoBruce · 01-11-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warch

So you deal with who is here and who you know will come, track them better, try to document them as they come, still make use of their arms, maybe even increase that, collect their taxes, school their kids, and help them avoid the emergency room.

What you describe is legals. We don't have to throw anyone out just make the rest come in the door instead of the window. Give them a shot at ALL jobs instead of just the shitty ones. Make them pay taxes and send their kids to school. Welcome them with open arms but make them follow the rules like everyone else.

warch · 01-12-2005, 10:46 AM

What you describe is legals. We don't have to throw anyone out just make the rest come in the door instead of the window. Give them a shot at ALL jobs instead of just the shitty ones. Make them pay taxes and send their kids to school. Welcome them with open arms but make them follow the rules like everyone else.

I'm describing the millions of undocumented workers and families HERE, NOW. Illegal.

There currently exist no "rules" that fit reality and safeguard not just workers but more importantly to politicians, entire industries. What I describe is the need to address some form of legal status that does not currently exist for those non documented individuals and families here now working and those who will be here in 15 minutes, and those that will leave this afternoon but will come back next month to work on that construction project planned.

The current door is too small and too slow. Any change needs to allow for a daily influx and exflux (is that a word?). If we stop the flow or slow it, how do we handle the immediate real worker shortages? So what do you do with those who have unlawfully been working right here, right now?
It costs over $200 US and many months to start the paperwork to be a resident alien, (or it used to in the early 90s). Should we put that cost onto the employers, along with insurance, bonding, union wages- to pass on to us? Should we waive the IMS/homeland sec. fees? Amnesty for all across the border at a certain date (again)? More detailed and industry specific temporary work permits? (We dont need them to come an take the good jobs, we need them for the shitty jobs at the shitty wages- the threat of taking the goods jobs away is the flame point)

It seems to require more than just enforcing a door, which is not a door anyway unless the great wall goes up,... but we would need to hire construction crews....
I'm just saying, The rules are broken because they cramp the capitalist engine. And that is the American way!

I orginally mentioned that I agreed with tw, but not about the whole sugar thing, so edit that. Not sure how I stand on moving all farms to Banana Republics.. But UT's comment about the wage conundrum is definitely true.

warch · 01-12-2005, 11:00 AM

Curious about stats.... US goverment estimates between 8-12 million illegal immigrants in the US right now. Time Magazine pegged it around 15 million. And the activist organization "American Resistance" has it over 20 million and ticking...any way, its a lot of people.

Schrodinger's Cat · 01-12-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warch

There currently exist no "rules" that fit reality and safeguard not just workers but more importantly to politicians, entire industries. What I describe is the need to address some form of legal status that does not currently exist for those non documented individuals and families here now working and those who will be here in 15 minutes, and those that will leave this afternoon but will come back next month to work on that construction project planned.

The current door is too small and too slow. Any change needs to allow for a daily influx and exflux (is that a word?). If we stop the flow or slow it, how do we handle the immediate real worker shortages? So what do you do with those who have unlawfully been working right here, right now?
It costs over $200 US and many months to start the paperwork to be a resident alien, (or it used to in the early 90s). Should we put that cost onto the employers, along with insurance, bonding, union wages- to pass on to us? Should we waive the IMS/homeland sec. fees? Amnesty for all across the border at a certain date (again)? More detailed and industry specific temporary work permits? (We dont need them to come an take the good jobs, we need them for the shitty jobs at the shitty wages- the threat of taking the goods jobs away is the flame point)

The ones who want more permanent legal status can go through all the expensive and time consuming paperwork. The rest could just get a work-pass good for a week or a month or whatever at the border. Employers could only hire those with work passes and would take payroll taxes out of their wages. The workers would have to accept smaller checks or else employers might pay them a little more, although I doubt this last. Even $5.00 an hour with taxes taken out is far better than what they could earn at home. A work pass wouldn't entitle anyone to anything more than what illegals get here already - emergency room trips and schools for their kids. At least they would be paying for these things thru their taxes if we let them come in legally as temporary workers.

russotto · 01-12-2005, 02:54 PM

[quote=wolf]I absolutely welcome legal immigrants. With very few exceptions, everybody here is in the US because of an immigrant forebear, most of whom entered legally, worked their asses off, learned English and became contributing Americans.
[quote]

Most of them came when immigration laws were more lax than they are now.

And in the not-so-distant-past (1960s, I believe), the migrant workers were perfectly legal.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-13-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warch

Curious about stats.... US goverment estimates between 8-12 million illegal immigrants in the US right now. Time Magazine pegged it around 15 million. And the activist organization "American Resistance" has it over 20 million and ticking...any way, its a lot of people.

From Busters link;

Quote:

Members of the Arizona Guatemalan Committee estimate there are as many as 35,000 to 40,000 Guatemalans in Arizona. The group is made up of local Guatemalans who lobbied the Guatemalan government to open a consulate in Phoenix.

Just Guatemalans, just Arizona, a lot of people indeed.

lookout123 · 01-14-2005, 10:36 AM

spend some time in arizona and southern california then tell me that large numbers of illegals are crucial and helpful to the economy.

01-12-2005, 10:46 AM	#32
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	What you describe is legals. We don't have to throw anyone out just make the rest come in the door instead of the window. Give them a shot at ALL jobs instead of just the shitty ones. Make them pay taxes and send their kids to school. Welcome them with open arms but make them follow the rules like everyone else. I'm describing the millions of undocumented workers and families HERE, NOW. Illegal. There currently exist no "rules" that fit reality and safeguard not just workers but more importantly to politicians, entire industries. What I describe is the need to address some form of legal status that does not currently exist for those non documented individuals and families here now working and those who will be here in 15 minutes, and those that will leave this afternoon but will come back next month to work on that construction project planned. The current door is too small and too slow. Any change needs to allow for a daily influx and exflux (is that a word?). If we stop the flow or slow it, how do we handle the immediate real worker shortages? So what do you do with those who have unlawfully been working right here, right now? It costs over $200 US and many months to start the paperwork to be a resident alien, (or it used to in the early 90s). Should we put that cost onto the employers, along with insurance, bonding, union wages- to pass on to us? Should we waive the IMS/homeland sec. fees? Amnesty for all across the border at a certain date (again)? More detailed and industry specific temporary work permits? (We dont need them to come an take the good jobs, we need them for the shitty jobs at the shitty wages- the threat of taking the goods jobs away is the flame point) It seems to require more than just enforcing a door, which is not a door anyway unless the great wall goes up,... but we would need to hire construction crews.... I'm just saying, The rules are broken because they cramp the capitalist engine. And that is the American way! I orginally mentioned that I agreed with tw, but not about the whole sugar thing, so edit that. Not sure how I stand on moving all farms to Banana Republics.. But UT's comment about the wage conundrum is definitely true. Last edited by warch; 01-12-2005 at 11:03 AM.

01-14-2005, 10:36 AM	#37
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	spend some time in arizona and southern california then tell me that large numbers of illegals are crucial and helpful to the economy. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

01-12-2005, 11:00 AM	#33
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Curious about stats.... US goverment estimates between 8-12 million illegal immigrants in the US right now. Time Magazine pegged it around 15 million. And the activist organization "American Resistance" has it over 20 million and ticking...any way, its a lot of people.

01-12-2005, 02:54 PM	#35
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	[quote=wolf]I absolutely welcome legal immigrants. With very few exceptions, everybody here is in the US because of an immigrant forebear, most of whom entered legally, worked their asses off, learned English and became contributing Americans. [quote] Most of them came when immigration laws were more lax than they are now. And in the not-so-distant-past (1960s, I believe), the migrant workers were perfectly legal.

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