What is a relationship?

[Catwoman]

I don't want a couple of kids and a mortgage! I don't define anything! I don't think my relationship is superior! That should answer your post!

[jinx]

I have the warmth, comfort, 'love' if you want to call it that and all the rest without compromising my self in any way.

I thought that's what you were saying here.

Do you actually have a point? Not to be snarky but I apparently need it spelled right out for me if you do.

[Catwoman]

Trying to overcome perceptions of relationships. Trying to illustrate, using myself as an example, that the idea of an exclusive relationship is odd, and doesn't work. Huge generalisation that I can back up only by examining each individual case (ie the ones that look like perfect relationships but aren't).

But I am getting frustrated at my own inability to explain myself.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by Catwoman

I don't label my relationship with this person not because of some outdated 60s hippy shit, but because there are no rules.

Just wait till your pregnant. You'll have rules squirting out of every orifice.

And, despite your attempt to define a higher state of being than the anthropoligical rut you feel the rest of the world is stuck in, the state you are defining is nearly impossible to distinguish from the "free love" hippie shit you are so determined to distance yourself from.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by Catwoman

I don't call it a relationship but: <stuff they do snipped>
To most people, this is a relationship. Just if you call it that (and ok I don't just mean a word, I mean accepting it into your consciousness as a relationship) you lose your freedom.

I see what you're saying. But I don't buy the notion that you have somehow developed the ability to sleep with someone, live with them, meet the 'rents, cuddle, do everything together, etc. etc., and not have an emotional investment. It sounds like you maybe feel *too* strongly and have developed this disconnect to keep from having your heart stomped on.

"I enjoy all the different components of a relationship, but it's not a relationship until I accept it as such," begs to be called bullshit upon. But hey, if you can do it and it actually makes you happy, good on you. Does your not-so-significant other care if guys hump your leg in a bar?

[limey]

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Now, of course I can choose to abide by rules in a relationship. But the minute my true choice contradicts with these rules (and it will) is the moment to change them.

Yes, it's all about choices. When your true choice coincides with not wanting to go off on a whim and fuck someone other than "your" "bloke", then you may know what a committed relationship is about.
That sounds very po-faced and I don't mean it to, it's just that I no longer think that being led by my hormones is what I truly want, and I see that as part of the maturing process. And that sounds snotty, too ... hey ho.

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by Catwoman

It's an odd concept, really. We don't really question it in daily life, you know, he's going out with her, that's his friend, they're in love.

As we are all separate people, individuals, what is behind the notion of having a 'relationship' or connection to someone. I'm not just talking about romantic relationships - friends, family, acquaintances... whatever definition you choose to give to what is essentially regular contact with one person.

There does appear to be an inclination to attach a label to different kinds of relationships, and unfortunately with these labels come a set of rules, for example, 'you wouldn't do that if you were my friend', or 'you should spend more time with me because you're my wife'. Just examples.

Why can't we let people come and go without forming some kind of relationship?

I've never been very good at relationships. However, my boss, a Boston Terrier named "Boss"", looked at me today as I was trying to teach him a new trick, cocked his head as to say you have got to be kidding..... Guess I named him appropriately.

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by cjjulie

Cat, if he didn't do anything to stop this big fat chick, then he is obviously not commited to the relationship and that would be the reason you are questioning everything. If it doesn't come naturally its not right....

Wouldn't one wonder, why he was allowing a big fat chick flirt with him. Maybe it's a fetish, or he is trying to tell you something......

[cjjulie]

So what your saying is it is *____________* formerly known as a relationship.

What are you so afraid of?

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by cjjulie

So what your saying is it is *____________* formerly known as a relationship.

What are you so afraid of?

I'd find out if he had a thing for fat chicks. If so, either get fat or leave him. If you don,t like that idea, the next time your in the pub, flirt with the fattest bloat there. He will get the idea one way or another.
If you were asking me what iwas afraid of, I would have to say my sanity or lack of......

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Catwoman

But I am getting frustrated at my own inability to explain myself.

That's what happens when you try to convey vague concepts. Try to give them form(words) and you find they're just smoke.
Keep telling yourself it's not really a "relationship" so that if it ends it won't hurt.
You're wrong...it will.

[Catwoman]

Hang on when did I say I wasn't emotionally attached or that I wouldn't be distraught if it ended? Of course there are feelings 'invested' and I would rather be with him than anyone else. But if it did end - what am I going to do about it? Ok I'll cry for a bit and then get on with the next moment. If the next moment is filled with sadness so be it, at least I'll be being real.

The fat bird was an example. What do you mean 'why did he allow her to flirt with him?' How would he stop her?! He didn't reciprocate, but he might have done if she was attractive, and there's nothing I can do about it.

Ok, I must say I wasn't so keen on this idea at first, and it did come from him, not me. But for every feeling off 'ooh it would hurt if he went off with someone else' was a huge feeling of relief 'I'm free do do whatever I want.' I'm not sure that I want a committed relationship - and I'm not being forced into one (for a change).

Don't forget I'm still early-20s and he's a bit older than me. I think he's aware I need to, lets say, live a bit more on my own before I think about settling down. Also, he has cheated on every single girlfriend he's had and I have cheated on every boyfriend. So I suppose we're just being honest about the possibility.

The relationship is not based on some idelogical freedom. It's based on good conversations and a unique connection. There are emotions there too, but they don't dictate it. I find when one is too emotional it clouds your vision, and the most important thing to me is my clarity.

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Does your not-so-significant other care if guys hump your leg in a bar?

He has the same initial reaction I would have - slight discomfort, a bit unsure, an emotional reaction. But he realises this is bullshit. Now, what I mean by that is sometimes we have feelings about someone we think are real but aren't. The jealousy you feel when a partner is with someone else is a proponent of the false 'love'. It is possible to think yourself into loving someone, 'oh, I grew to love him'. Well that is something I want to avoid. I only want a true relationship, and how can you be sure it's true unless you have utmost clarity? This is why I am trying to remove all rules, associations, irrelevant emotions and petty jealousy so I can see if there is an underlying true feeling there. I'm not sure at the moment, but hopefully it will become clear.

[jaguar]

Ii get it because I'm trying something similar. It is very hard to articulate, you haven't been doing a bad job. Last paragraph kind of got the gist of it.

Hang on when did I say I wasn't emotionally attached or that I wouldn't be distraught if it ended? Of course there are feelings 'invested' and I would rather be with him than anyone else. But if it did end - what am I going to do about it? Ok I'll cry for a bit and then get on with the next moment. If the next moment is filled with sadness so be it, at least I'll be being real.

I think this is kind of the key, i'll speak for myself only but I think cat would agree on this one: I'm with the person I'm with because we enjoy each other and doing things together however the minute that ends, for whatever reason, we'll part ways and we both understand that fully. Two people doing something simply because they want to, no construct on top to fence it in.

[Catwoman]

Wow. You've said in four lines what I've taken two days to muddle up. Impressive.

[jaguar]

Took a few tries, I've been trying to nail that one for nearly a month.