Riddle me this

[SteveDallas]

Sorry I asked.

[Undertoad]

The Dean scream can only be understood in context and HM's portrayal of it removes as much context as the media.

It was the final act of the rise and fall of Dean during the Iowa primary, and Dean's ascension was largely due to media attention, along with his newly-proven tactic of using the net to raise nationwide funds. Three weeks prior to the scream, Dean was being Kinged as the new savior. His approach called for getting rough with the other side and attacking vigorously which caught the attention of everyone. Unfortunately it also had the effect of completely turning off the Iowa electorate, and his unexpectedly poor result let most of the air out of the balloon. And only THEN, YEeeaaaaagh!

The Yeagh was the least of his concerns, and the reason it was overplayed was because it was somewhat representational of his fiery attack approach being overplayed and leading to his demise. And because it was LESS damning than the REAL story, which was that Dean had dramatically failed and that his campaign had been dealt a terrible blow.

Similarly, during the 1992 election, the media made a big deal of George Bush 41 being very surprised by the newfangled technology of a supermarket scanner. The event didn't really happen as described. But the story took hold because it was such a strong analogy for what people felt about 41.

[Happy Monkey]

So I guess the first one is the closest to untrue. And I'll agree. Dean should give at least as much benefit of the doubt to DeLay as he did to bin Laden.

And what's the contradiction and/or mistruth in the last two quotes?

[mrnoodle]

You know the drug thing was a cheap shot, and untrue (he's a pill popper)

The "Republicans don't work for a living" thing is also a cheap shot, and untrue. It's part of his playing to "Democrats with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks", which, like the other statements I quoted, fall under the "hateful" category for numerous reasons that you're smart enough to figure out, so fertheloveofpete stop nitpicking and instead tell me whether Dean is nuts, pure mean, or what.

[Happy Monkey]

I responded to the honest living quote above. And, I gotta say that the first time I heard Republican officials consider the Confederate flag offensive was in response to Dean's comment.

And the Limbaugh thing isn't nitpicking?

[jaguar]

I hope this thread has demonstrated to a few more people why noodle takes the pedestal of fuckwittery.

Dean was assassintated by the media for showing emotion. I don't know which bit of the whole thing is saddest.

I find BBCNews24 still quite good, they occasionally get a bit carried away with tabloid stuff like the FA cap sex scandal crap but in general they're much better than CNN, Fox, Sky24 etc. You get the media you pay for, get the financial papers, the more expensive dailies and you get real news and issues that don't make it in the main ones, all media has bais but some is more transparent than others. Avoid anything by Murdoch, if you want to see why look at the Times before and after.

You have to admire the republican party in a way, there's something so utterly shameless about pandering to 'cultural' issues and then getting away with fucking the very people that voted for them long and hard while in office.

[mrnoodle]

I'm sorry, jaguar, did I misquote Dr. Dean? In which instance?

The confederate flag quote is actually the most revealing one. The left has made a 40-year career out of making minorities and the poor dependent on big government, and has no real empathy for them. All they are is a voting bloc as far as Democrats are concerned. Dean's actually being quite honest on that count -- he knows they have the black vote tied up, now he wants the racist vote too.

Which fucks over people more? Making them dependent on handouts and programs or fostering an environment in which businesses are actually able to pay better wages and benefits?

Dean wasn't "assassintated" by anyone, he's committing political suicide in front of the whole world, and dragging the Democrats over the cliff with him.

And I'm afraid that the vaunted Pedestal of Fuckwittery is reserved for people who make constant personal jabs at others who are just voicing their opinion. Not enough room for me up there unless you move over, or at least prick that grossly inflated head of yours and let some air out.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

The confederate flag quote is actually the most revealing one. The left has made a 40-year career out of making minorities and the poor dependent on big government, and has no real empathy for them. All they are is a voting bloc as far as Democrats are concerned. Dean's actually being quite honest on that count -- he knows they have the black vote tied up, now he wants the racist vote too.

Actually, he's being quite honest that the Democratic party has pretty much given up on the rural South, and doesn't even try anymore. He plans to change that, and start campaigning thoughout the country.

Which fucks over people more? Making them dependent on handouts and programs or fostering an environment in which businesses are actually able to pay better wages and benefits?

The economy is consistently better under Democrats. And one goal of Republican lawmakers is to allow businesses to pay lower wages and benefits.

[mrnoodle]

Are you referring to the economy of Jimmy Carter, or the economy of Bill Clinton after the Republicans took control of Congress in 94?

I'll bite. Which law is designed to allow businesses to pay lower wages and benefits? This is so tiring. So many people to starve, and so little time. My folks got their social security check last month, so we've failed there. And Medicare covered a big chunk of our friend's shoulder replacement. Damn.

The kids haven't had school lunches in a couple weeks, since school has been out, so I don't know if we've finally eliminated those or not. But I saw some Mexicans doing yardwork for a white guy this morning, so at least they're still under our thumb. Oh shit. How'd THEY get in here?

I can't believe how many people actually believe that's really what lawmakers are thinking. This business about the Dems looking out for the little guy while the Republicans only care about lowering taxes on the rich is an absolute relic, and I can't wait for it to self-destruct. More Howard Dean, please! I like watching the left implode.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

--whack--This business about the Dems looking out for the little guy while the Republicans only care about lowering taxes on the rich is an absolute relic, and I can't wait for it to self-destruct.

I hope you're patient, cause you're in for a long wait.

For me, the party labels are of secondary consideration at best. I'll give substantially more weight to an individual's actions and words. Interestingly, whenever I notice an effort to lower the taxes on the rich, say our current estate tax system, the people trying to make it happen identify themselves as republicans.

Republican credo:* "...government by the <strike>people</strike> rich, for the <strike>people</strike> rich, by the <strike>people </strike> rich, plus anybody we can trick into doing our work for us..."

* edited for clarity

I have more, but the subject sickens me too much to continue now.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Are you referring to the economy of Jimmy Carter, or the economy of Bill Clinton after the Republicans took control of Congress in 94?

Here's a reference.

I'll bite. Which law is designed to allow businesses to pay lower wages and benefits? This is so tiring. So many people to starve, and so little time. My folks got their social security check last month, so we've failed there. And Medicare covered a big chunk of our friend's shoulder replacement. Damn.

Programs that Democrats champion and Republicans denigrate, Social Security, Medicare, the minimum wage, labor laws, overtime. These programs are so popular that the Republicans have trouble making headway against them, and you use that failure to claim that Republicans actually support them?

This business about the Dems looking out for the little guy while the Republicans only care about lowering taxes on the rich is an absolute relic, and I can't wait for it to self-destruct.

Maybe if the Republicans sided with the little guy once in a while, they could do something about that.

[mrnoodle]

That's another relic, man. This class warfare garbage is just that -- garbage. When a group of people bears 90 percent of the tax burden, they are obviously going to benefit from any tax break more than the group that only bears 10 percent of the burden. This idea that the rich are taking a bigger piece of a pie and leaving only crumbs for the less fortunate is false, false, false. The rich are that way because they made the pie bigger, not because they penny-ante'd some welfare mom's check from her. The left has completely convinced a big chunk of the population that the only way people become wealthy is if they steal government lucre from the poor.

It's untrue, false, a lie, bullshit, garbage, and otherwise incorrect. Taxing the rich as punishment for their success is counterproductive and for that matter, doesn't improve the quality of life for the poor one whit. That money doesn't go to the poor, it goes to the government, who spends it on bloated pork-ridden nonsense. Both parties.

edit: this was responding to BigV. HM beat me to the post button. Again.


Minimum wage? What good does raising the minimum wage do? No one can live on it anyway. Instead, take the burden off of businesses so that they can create better paying jobs. I suppose raising the minimum wage helps someone who works at fast food or as a farm laborer, but if that's the only goal someone has in life, they shouldn't expect to be paid $30 an hour for it. Some jobs are just low-paying. That's not my fault.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Minimum wage? What good does raising the minimum wage do? No one can live on it anyway.

Hmmm. I wonder... How can I combine sentences two and three?

[warch]

Minimum wage? What good does raising the minimum wage do? No one can live on it anyway. Instead, take the burden off of businesses so that they can create better paying jobs. I suppose raising the minimum wage helps someone who works at fast food or as a farm laborer, but if that's the only goal someone has in life, they shouldn't expect to be paid $30 an hour for it. Some jobs are just low-paying. That's not my fault.

There is nothing more stupid than a Republican that earns less than 150K per year.

[Clodfobble]

What does that mean, warch? I don't understand.