Do You Own a Gun?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

So restricting guns (not that I endorse it) is an effort to preserve that freedom - cool!

Violating the rights of those who are harming nobody does not preserve freedom. In fact it virtually guarantees the worst kind of tyranny. Only Nazis and their ilk support limiting, restricting, or outlawing gun ownership for regular people and not for government.

[Ibby]

So... you have rights unless your parents say you don't then. Lovely.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Ibram

So... you have rights unless your parents say you don't then. Lovely.

Wrong. You have them, you just can't exercise them unless your parents allow you to.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Radar

Wrong. You have them, you just can't exercise them unless your parents allow you to.

Wait, what? How can you have them if you can't exercise them?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Ibram

Wait, what? How can you have them if you can't exercise them?

Your rights are still your rights even if someone is preventing you from exercising them or is violating them. Does your right to own property disappear if someone steals your property? Of course not. You have the right to free speech even when the government is preventing you from exercising that right.

Our rights are immutable. They can not go away. They can not be given away, traded, bought, sold, or voted on. They are like gravity. If everyone on earth voted for gravity to disappear, we'd still have it.

Originally Posted by Radar

Wrong. You have them, you just can't exercise them unless your parents allow you to.

When I was away from my parents I exercised several rights without their permission, as was my right.

[Radar]

Yes I am. I'm saying that all laws against drugs, prostitution, gambling, polygamy, or any other consensual act ore violations of our natural rights. You have the right to put anything you want into your own body (once you reach the age of majority). No government has any legitimate authority to prevent you from doing so.

[Trilby]

Ok. I'm down with all that, Radar. Now. Let's say I choose to shoot some heroin, a thing my govt. looks down on, and I become sick--I go to the local ER expecting health care for my breathing problem related to shooting too much H. I've no money to pay for the care and no insurance. Who is responsible for caring for me while I am ill and paying the bill?

Same thing goes if I choose to use sex workers who may be sick with STD's--who pays for my care?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Ok. I'm down with all that, Radar. Now. Let's say I choose to shoot some heroin, a thing my govt. looks down on, and I become sick--I go to the local ER expecting health care for my breathing problem related to shooting too much H. I've no money to pay for the care and no insurance. Who is responsible for caring for me while I am ill and paying the bill?

Same thing goes if I choose to use sex workers who may be sick with STD's--who pays for my care?

You alone are responsible for your own healthcare. All government funded healthcare or social programs are wrong. There should be plenty of non-profits that might offer you help, but if they don't you have only yourself to blame.

When you consent to take part in an activity, you are consenting to the risks involved in it. If you sleep with street walkers, you might get an STD and you'll have only yourself to blame. It should be noted that there hasn't been a single case of an STD in the more than 30 years of legal prostitution in Nevada. In fact there hasn't even been a case of someone getting the sniffles.

If you consent to use dangerous drugs, you have only yourself to blame if you become addicted. It should be noted that not all drug use is drug abuse, and that if the government ended the failed "war on drugs", they would be very affordable and dosages would be regulated and measured so we'd have fewer deaths from overdose, virtually zero deaths from gang warfare for drug territory, families wouldn't be broken up and wouldn't have to collect welfare, and even addicts could support their habit with a regular job so there would be fewer robberies to pay for it.

The government is here to protect us from each other. It's not here to protect us from ourselves.

[Ibby]

You are, or the charity of anyone willing to help an addict.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Ibram

You are, or the charity of anyone willing to help an addict.

If i can't pay and no one will help me---I die. I guess this would help with the population problem but it seems rather----uncivilized.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Brianna

If i can't pay and no one will help me---I die. I guess this would help with the population problem but it seems rather----uncivilized.

I think it's very civilized. Those who die due to irresponsibility (though we hope them to be few in number) would serve as an example to others of why they should act responsibly.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Ibram

anyone willing to help an addict.

to perhaps be more palatable, forget being an addict. Think of grandma who insisted on biscuits and gravy or big mac's three times a day with heart trouble, the bar tender who got CA from second hand smoke, the daredevil who drives too fast and crashes...if anyone has the right to do anything they want with their bodies, how can I be responsible for their care? yet, we have welfare care.

[Ibby]

Well so what do you propose? I mean, those are the two options... either you save yourself or someone else saves you. Otherwise, you die. I mean, thats a rather simple formula, no?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Ibram

Well so what do you propose? I mean, those are the two options... either you save yourself or someone else saves you. Otherwise, you die. I mean, thats a rather simple formula, no?

I guess I am getting at the whole idea that I have the right to use illegal drugs; or any harmful substance, without thought for the common good or the common dollar. Personal choices are rarely personal--they nearly always effect someone. A child, a govt. agency, a community service...just a thought, ya know.