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We have to go back, Kate!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
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I was going to post this in the summer, but it got by me and has suddenly popped up on a list of what's currently being read on the site.
One area of life in which women have struggled to achieve much of a presence, and which it is really important for women to achieve some presence is the realm of politics and government. As with the discussion about the number of female characters on screen and the number of female experts and news readers, this is one of those things where we (I think) almost instinctively feel as if there has been an explosion of female presence, to the point where they seem to be everywhere - but when you actually analyse it they've a fraction of the presence of men. We just don't realy notice the number of men, because they are the standard - we notice the presence of women. One of the ways that sexism manifests in our culture is not just the number of women in politics and government, but how we discuss and understand female politicians. It is worrying to me how little that has changed, in some ways, since I was a child. Any woman in the public eye in any kind of a position of power, influence, or the potential of either gets taken down a peg in the language used to describe her. I don't meangets taken down a peg, as an individual - that happens to all politicians in the media. I mean taken down a peg as a woman. Everything about the way female politicians are discussed, interviewed, described and reported on underscores their femininity in a way that is weakening. For example, the way a candidate in this year's Labour Party leadership contest was treated by the national political press. Quote:
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#2 |
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I love it when a plan comes together.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,793
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We men accept full responsibility for one cause of sexist remarks. As primitive humans we have not yet overcome this obscenity. Please accept our heartfelt apology for the shameful action of dressing our females.
We can't all be Ferengi. |
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#3 | |
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We have to go back, Kate!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
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It isn't men, hon. It's people. Unconscious biases affect us all. Women are just as put off voting for other women as men are when this kind of reporting is used. We are also likely to focus on another woman's looks in a way we don't with men.
I noticed it myself with my nieces. As they were growing up I had tomakea conscious effort not to comment on appearance all the time. 'Hi babes - oh you look nice, where did you get that top?' Standard girl-to-girl greeting. Nothing wrong with that, in and of itself, but it has an impact when it becomes the central focus for how we view women even in positions of power and responsibility.
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#4 |
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The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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So now you're the uncaring aunt who never even notices how hard they tried to look good.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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#5 | |
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We have to go back, Kate!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
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Hehehehehe. I comment if they've clearly got new clothes or are all dolled up for going out.
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#6 |
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The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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The problem is you can't know what someone else is thinking. They may have done something they feel makes them, like totally like different like ya know, but it's such a slight difference it could has been accidental or random. When nobody says anything, they're devastated. Or spent three hours fighting s blackhead or stray wisp of hair, then giving up. When somebody notices they're devastated. To be clear, this is not a female thing, it's a human thing.
I remember Calvin bitching to Hobbes, what good is it to have superhero underwear if nobody comments on it.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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#7 | |
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We have to go back, Kate!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
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True enough. It was more when they were youngsters really. Mum and I realised that the first thing we always said to the girls, in our greetings, was pretty much to the effect that they looked nice. We just tried to be a bit more conscious of stuff and maybe mix it up a bit.
It's hard though - because the pair of them are and always have been drop dead gorgeous. In truth, it is often one of the first things I say to my bro as well when I see him. Because he is a bit of a style freak (style not fashion, I hasten to add) and likes to look good - he often has new clothes and it is instinctive to me to mention it. But he isn't surrounded by 24/7 cultural messaging telling him his looks are his most important quality.
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We have to go back, Kate!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
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This made me smile a lot. These young lads are very impressive.
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Read the rest here: http://www.theguardian.com/global-de...s-championship
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#9 | |||
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We have to go back, Kate!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
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This, on the other hand, did not make me want to smile. This is a piece from the Guardian, about the author's experience of travelling home from a show with her 13 year old daughter.
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It's a peculiar experience, being harrassed as a young teen. It can be threatening, it can also make you feel grownup. Often it is a combination of the two. I doubt there are many women who have not experienced some form of harrassment as youngsters. This was a particularly extreme example, but I recall several experiences from when I was around 12 years old, that definitely made men seem a much more dangerous proposition. It's funny how you learn to navigate it - like any other social landscape, it forms part of how you see the world. I don't mean that it warps you - just that the risk and danger is an ordinary part of the world you are in. Men, of course, have their own ordinary dangers to which they become accustomed and which they naturally take into account and navigate. But I thought some of the guys in particular might find the insight into a particularly female experience of interest.
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#10 | |
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The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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Here's a good one, The Thing All Women Do That You Don't Know About.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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#11 | |
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We have to go back, Kate!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
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Excellent article.
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#12 |
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polaroid of perfection
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 24,185
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I found myself out once with a group of older men I know reasonably well.
I wouldn't call them friends, but we know eachother's names and say Hello in the street, stop to pass the time of day. One of the men can be quite... irascible. He'd been challenged by someone on a committee he Chairs and was very grumpy. I was obvious he wanted to kick off. Now they were drinking (albeit slowly), and I had a soft drink, but there was no hint of violence; they're all retired anyway, not the usual age range for brawling. But I could see that his snapping was bringing the group down and I wanted to stay out a little longer in the warm, the light, some company. So I did my Princess Diana. I smiled, paid him attention, lowered my eyes, listened. Slowly diverted his conversation by asking about things I know he likes and enjoys (his caravan FFS!) It worked. He stopped being sarcastic, got off his high horse, joined in the usual banter. It wasn't until afterwards I realised what I'd done. I suppose I was being manipulative. After all I got what I wanted out of it. Another half hour or so stretching out a Diet Pepsi. And yes, I did feel a bit icky afterwards.
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Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac |
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#13 | |
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Junior Master Dwellar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Buckinghamshire UK
Posts: 4,059
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Manipulative? Nah. You poured oil on troubled waters and it didn't catch fire. I'd enter that in the credit side of life's ledger.
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#14 | |
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We have to go back, Kate!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
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How can people still be aking these points ? This is only three years old.
And how is this still a thing?
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Last edited by DanaC; 11-30-2015 at 12:20 PM. |
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#15 | |
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The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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Faux wouldn't do that to avoid talking about real issues, would they?
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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