God? Faith?

[LabRat]

Bee-u-tiful. No one has ever explained it to me that way. Totally makes sense. My knee jerk response to the marriage fairy scenario is of course free will. Now, let me chew on this awhile and see what I can find that I don't like about it

[Troubleshooter]

The other side of the choice story is whether you want a life that is filled with meaning or a life that is filled with certainty. Meaning doesn't necessarily pay the bills, so to speak.

The story doesn't fly. God doesn't have needs or wants that are made clear in any part of the manual.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

The story doesn't fly. God doesn't have needs or wants that are made clear in any part of the manual.

I always thought the story said God created us because he was lonely..? Loneliness is a need/want.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Brianna

I always thought the story said God created us because he was lonely..? Loneliness is a need/want.

Cite please.

[LabRat]

Here's problem #1 with the fairy scenario...She forgot to show me the outcomes, and since I am omnipotent I would already KNOW that if I chose free will, the little bastard would cheat on me, leave his underwear on the floor 12 inches from the laundry basket, and gamble our life savings away. If I was an all loving spouse, saying that I would love you no matter what, why would I send to to eternal damnation if you end up choosing to divorce me (which i knew you were going to do)? (merging the 2 scenarios) Sounds a bit vengeful to me. If God isn't vengeful or jealous, and is supposed to love us no matter what, why send us to hell if we choose not to believe in him/break his rules? my head is starting to hurt

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by LabRat

my head is starting to hurt

That's because you're making the prime mistake when pondering God, thinking.

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by LabRat

Here's problem #1 with the fairy scenario...She forgot to show me the outcomes, and since I am omnipotent I would already KNOW the outcomes...If I was an all loving spouse, saying that I would love you no matter what, why would I send to to eternal damnation if you end up choosing to divorce me (which i knew you were going to do)? ... If God isn't vengeful or jealous, and is supposed to love us no matter what, why send us to hell if we choose not to believe in him/break his rules?

*LR is waiting patiently for a response...*

One problem of taking the bible for word for word truth is that it's been translated multiple times, and thusly lots of things have been slightly changed...creating potentially new meanings for different passages...

Quote Brianna: "It's a mystery locked in a cunundrum wrapped in an enigma."
confounded by human inaccuracy

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by LabRat

Here's problem #1 with the fairy scenario...She forgot to show me the outcomes, and since I am omnipotent I would already KNOW that if I chose free will, the little bastard would cheat on me, leave his underwear on the floor 12 inches from the laundry basket, and gamble our life savings away. If I was an all loving spouse, saying that I would love you no matter what, why would I send to to eternal damnation if you end up choosing to divorce me (which i knew you were going to do)? (merging the 2 scenarios) Sounds a bit vengeful to me. If God isn't vengeful or jealous, and is supposed to love us no matter what, why send us to hell if we choose not to believe in him/break his rules? my head is starting to hurt

Got to add some to your scenario...

If your spouse had free will, and chose to do all that bad stuff and divorce you, he would be selecting his own outcome, right? What if you had a child who was so distraught over the spouse's bad decision that he offered to pay the penalty himself, and bring the spouse back into the right relationship with you? If the spouse accepts this gift, he gets back into the family and the matter is never spoken of again.

Doesn't sound vengeful or jealous to me.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by LabRat

If God isn't vengeful or jealous, and is supposed to love us no matter what, why send us to hell if we choose not to believe in him/break his rules?

If you have a child, you know that being a parent ain't easy. You have rules. They are there not to get your kids in trouble, but to protect them. You tell them "these are the rules and this is what happens if you break the rules". If they then choose to break the rules, willfully and defiantly, just because they don't feel like following them, is it wrong to be consistant and stick to the rules and consequences?

Originally Posted by LabRat

One problem of taking the bible for word for word truth is that it's been translated multiple times, and thusly lots of things have been slightly changed...creating potentially new meanings for different passages...

Man, if you only knew how many times I hear this argument....Agreed, translating from one language to another (and in some cases two languages into another) is ALWAYS difficult.

As far as accuracy, we have MULTIPLE surviving copies of all of the books in the bible. Don't you think they've been checked and rechecked against each other for accuracy? When there is a problem with translation, we are given notes in the text to compare the word or phrase against another portion of text, sometimes in a different book. That's what those little notations are.

Now accuracy and interpretation are two different things. That's why there are so many different bible interpretations. KJV, NASB, NIV, etc... Just because they have different words, generally, the verses mean the same thing.



Edit: Hell isn't all fire and brimstone. Hell is the eternal absence of God.

[Trilby]

*frantically looking for Bible*

There's got to be one around here somewhere...

*keeps looking*

Of course there's the 'S/He made us so we could worship Him/Her' theory. What an ego!

[Trilby]

Ok--Revelation 4:11 says God created us for His pleasure, so, yeah, you could argue that S/He created us to fuck with us. The Bible says a lot of things. Things that mostly contradict other things. It's a mystery locked in a cunundrum wrapped in an enigma. Or something like that.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Things that mostly contradict other things. It's a mystery locked in a cunundrum wrapped in an enigma. Or something like that.

That's why I used the "made clear" qualifier in my statement.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Plan B) You are guaranteed that he will treat you as the queen you are... but if he has no other choice is it as special? Are his actions that honor you as meaningful when you have a few years to realize, it is impossible for him to do anything else?
Plan A) Free Will. You know him very well and you know he will disappoint you in your marriage. He will, at times, say unkind things to you, he will sometimes be thoughtless in his actions, he will often be self centered. There is even a possibility that he might decide his secretary is more appealing than you, at least for a day - inother words he will fail you (and himself)

So you get a choice between a minivan and a sports car?

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Ok--Revelation 4:11 says God created us for His pleasure, so, yeah, you could argue that S/He created us to fuck with us. The Bible says a lot of things. Things that mostly contradict other things. It's a mystery locked in a cunundrum wrapped in an enigma. Or something like that.

Actually, there are very few (if any) contradictions when taking the statement in question in context in the bible that cannot be explained logically.

Please understand I in no way am stating they don't exist, lest the heathens inundate me with examples, just that MOST if not all of them can be explained with Eisegesis. (sp)


and TS, I dont think that you have to check intellectualism at the door of your place of worship. My biggest hurdle is my tendency to have to think things through, and for things to make sense. I can't, no matter how hard I try, have "blind faith", but rather, I have to have reasons why I believe like I do.

Some people can have blind faith, but I can't. And there's a passage in the bible that says specifically DON'T have blind faith, but have reasons why you believe like you do.

I don't think anyone should have blind faith in anything.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I don't think anyone should have blind faith in anything.

Says the woman who thinks the earth is 6000 +/- years old...