The Anti-State

[glatt]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

For example, to privately own fully automatic weapons (yes, it's legal), you must pass an extensive background check similar to that given to applicants to the CIA or who work in nuclear facilities, buy a federal tax stamp (I think that's what it's called) for each item, and you essentially waive your right against "unreasonable search and seizure". The feds can check on the location of the weapon at any time day or night, and you must comply. You can't leave it out of your possession unless it's secured in a particular way, and if you transport it, you have to notify the authorities. I'm pulling these from memory, so I might have missed some or misrepresented some details, but that's essentially the way it works.

It's much easier to get one illegally.

And yet you don't hear about bad guys using fully automatic weapons to commit crimes. Well, there was that one bank robber a while back, but that's all I can remember.

I guess regulating weapons actually does have an impact on their use in crime.

[mrnoodle]

That's because they're not usually interested in firepower. A bank robber wants somethnig to wave around so people will do what he says. A rapist wants his victim to not get away. A murderer just wants someone dead. They all want something portable, and an M60 isn't functional in that respect.

If anything, most of em would pick based on looks rather than function. It's not like they know anything about guns, other than they make them feel lpowerful.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

There should be no lines for private ownership.

No lines at all? Anything the military has should be available to the public? Tanks? Fighter Jets? Gunships? Warships? Nukes? Chem? Bio? Any weapon invented in the future?

The fear is that someone will get a howitzer or something and use it to wreak havok in the community, but that possibility is too remote to be included in the argument. The cost is prohibitive, there's little to no availability, and there are a number of legal obstacles besides the right to ownership that must be overcome.

So registration and regulation are effective?

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Flint
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I don't know...I think justadequatevideos.org has some good ones.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

That's because they're not usually interested in firepower. A bank robber wants somethnig to wave around so people will do what he says. A rapist wants his victim to not get away. A murderer just wants someone dead. They all want something portable, and an M60 isn't functional in that respect.

If anything, most of em would pick based on looks rather than function. It's not like they know anything about guns, other than they make them feel lpowerful.

I think I agree with most of what you just said. But I also think the main reason fully automatic weapons aren't used by criminals is that they are harder to get.

That is innacurate... the black market is flooded with AKs from China. Criminals don't use them because they are large, bulky and very easy to identify.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

That is innacurate...

Just to be clear, are you saying it's easier to buy fully automatic machine guns on the black market than to buy any other kind of guns legally?

I find that hard to believe.

No background check, no waiting period. For a felon, it is the only way.
It is also the only way to purchase a non-traceable weapon. They are also far less expensive than new, registered weapons, unless you want a specialty weapon.

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

That is innacurate... the black market is flooded with AKs from China. Criminals don't use them because they are large, bulky and very easy to identify.

Also your common criminal that holds up a convenience store is a moron and probably couldn't get himself an AK if he tried.

Perhaps not... depending on what city he lives in. But, I bet he knows someone who can get him an illegal gun.
Anyone who knows their home town well knows that.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Perhaps not... depending on what city he lives in. But, I bet he knows someone who can get him an illegal gun.
Anyone who knows their home town well knows that.

I do, and I don't. Then again, I have never asked, nor do I associate with anyone who would know.

You live in a dream city then.
I knew in HS.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I think that there are three classes of weapon:

1) Weapons that should be available to the average person.
2) Weapons that should be available only to the military.
3) Weapons that should not be available.

Almost all gun debates are over where to draw the lines, not whether there should be lines, even though a strict reading of the Second Amendment would support the idea of no lines.

As long as the National Guard can NEVER use their military grade weapons on US soil, EVER, under ANY circumstances, against citizens. Sure.
& as long as cops get the same weapons that the rest of us get... but it is moot.
The plans are out there and anyone with a lathe and packing material will make a pistol as soon as their weapon is confiscated. I will be first in line for one. Only and idiot would not have the best weapon possible to protect themselves.
It is just an impossible scenario. You cannot go back in time.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

As long as the National Guard can NEVER use their military grade weapons on US soil, EVER, under ANY circumstances, against citizens. Sure.

Even to fight the Bad Guys?

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

& as long as cops get the same weapons that the rest of us get... but it is moot.
The plans are out there and anyone with a lathe and packing material will make a pistol as soon as their weapon is confiscated. I will be first in line for one.

You admit that only bad guys will then have guns. How can Cops fight them without having guns, themselves? Now, if only bad guys and Cops had guns, it would be easy for the Cops to identify the bad guys and take care of them.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Only and idiot would not have the best weapon possible to protect themselves.
It is just an impossible scenario. You cannot go back in time.

Ok, UG. Impossible = pessimism.

US citizens are never the "Bad Guys". Especially to have military forces used against them.
Bad guys are cops that subjugate the population and remove freedom through superior firepower. Those are the Bad Guys.
I did not say the cops could not have guns. You misqoted me.