04-15-2004, 08:05 AM | #46 |
Radical Centrist
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To the Christians: harshly questionning your beliefs is not an attack on you personally.
If you would like to see a personal attack, so you can tell the difference, that can be arranged. |
04-15-2004, 08:53 AM | #47 |
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Is there free will in heaven? Absolutely.
For me, Heaven represents the absence of temptation. Heaven is the one place the devil can't work his mojo and since the devil is the source (although not the responsible party) of whatever separation there might be between humans and God, the absence of temptation, is, therefore, heaven (unity with God). At least that's the presumption I operate under however ignorant it must appear to people who believe otherwise.
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04-15-2004, 09:15 AM | #48 |
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So if the devil were eliminated, Earth would become paradise, regardless of free will?
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04-15-2004, 10:01 AM | #49 | |
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I'd have to think about Earth. But, my prelim guess is that Earth would be paradise-like (we're still human and so I can't rule out suffering which may preclude calling Earth paradise) if Satan (or the personificaiton of evil) stopped exerting influence on people's actions and intentions. At a minimum, I think things would be a little better than they are if and when things we all pretty much agree are evil suddenly became a thing of the past. I guess the degree to which one might be inclined to refer to a world without temptation as paradise would have to be a function of where that person is now. A drug lord who's living large on the backs of his addicts might call the "new world" hell whereas a North Korean starving in solitary for a political "crime" might be inclined to call the new world paradise.
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04-15-2004, 10:27 AM | #50 |
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I think heaven's here on earth (as is hell). It is up to each of us through our use of free will to act so that there will be a little bit of heaven in our lives and those of the people around us. We can also choose to act to create hell. I don't believe in Satan. There's only foolish (or down-right sociopathic) human beings. In my life I have met many "angels" - ordinary human beings who act with kindness and compassion.
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04-15-2004, 11:37 AM | #51 | ||||
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04-15-2004, 11:55 AM | #52 | |
I think this line's mostly filler.
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04-15-2004, 12:06 PM | #53 | |||||
I can hear my ears
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from the very beginning, you've been led to believe without proof. faith. faith is another way of saying, "trust me" which is Yiddish for "fuck you" Quote:
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This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan |
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04-15-2004, 01:00 PM | #54 | |||||
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The longer I think about it, the more offended I am that you would insult my experience by saying that I'm just parroting what some preacher told me. I get that you're bitter about something, but it wasn't my fault, man. Read The Case for Christ for an example of a journalist who set out to disprove Christianity and..um..fell victim to the brainwashing of hordes of mindless fable-obsessed morality zombies. |
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04-15-2004, 01:16 PM | #55 |
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I think it's time to set the record straight about something else. There's a little difference between my faith and my politics. The latter is influenced by the former, but I don't think government should necessarily be rooted in theology. Yah, it would be nice, from my point of view. But I think the Denver Broncos should win every football game they play, too. Let's just say I think secular government works better if it's populated by those who don't ignore the belief system of a large portion of their constituency.
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04-15-2004, 01:54 PM | #56 | ||||
I can hear my ears
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i find it highly unlikely that : Quote:
how can you say you were not influenced by organized religion? it's insidious. it's everywhere. unavoidable. you claim to take credit for arriving at the same conclusion by coincedence? that's why i said "bullshit"...because it is. you may not have noticed, but you were taught to believe in god. You all might be right, noodle. but, so might I be. and so might the Jews, the Buddhists, the Muslims. and I don't summarily dismiss your belief. It is every bit as likely as mine. I reject your pity: Quote:
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This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan |
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04-15-2004, 02:25 PM | #57 |
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faith is not brainwashed. The unthinking sheep can have faith, because he never thought about what he is being fed.
The person who thinks about the subject and has had a personal experience can have faith independantly (IOW, not directly caused by) the preponderance of religion in his/her life. I have to agree with Noodles on this one Jim, and I've noticed that the subject of religion pushes the "asshole" button on you. It makes you cranky and tends to make you personally attack. Just an observation. |
04-15-2004, 02:38 PM | #58 | |
I can hear my ears
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I am happy for you that you have your faith. i'm sure it helps you on a daily basis. really. i'm not being sarcastic. you seem like a good dude. go with god. you'll probably go to heaven when you die. My real opinion is that you experience what you expect to experience when you die. you judge yourself. i believe in reincarnation
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This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan |
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04-15-2004, 02:55 PM | #59 | |||
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Time to ratchet it down a notch. Your intelligence isn't in question, and I'm sorry if I came across that way. As for the rest:
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What makes me think you will lose something? What makes you think you haven't? |
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04-15-2004, 03:10 PM | #60 | |
I can hear my ears
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rofl..... you're right about those that choose to believe and have faith. i said brainwashing. that was too strong a word. i refer to the effect that the cumulative opinion of the masses has on the individual. the "peer pressure".... I may seem cranky. what i really am feeling is disapointment. or bewilderment. as i said before, i find it appalling that people who's opinions I normally respect......break down and fall back on "faith" as their argument. faith is not an argument. faith is believing something that you can't prove. While I can;t prove them wrong. my position is at least as valid as theirs. why can;t we just say " i dunno?" neither of you two have said ...hey, yeah, your idea is just as good as mine. I've repeated that several times now. respect me, and i'll respect you.
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This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan |
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