Osprey Struts Its Stuff at Farnborough - Page 4

Griff · 07-23-2006, 07:34 AM

I like the idea of the Osprey but I'm wondering if we're getting into another Hummer situation? Is it a vehicle that's a little too big and a lot too expensive for its intended purpose? The Marines are still going to need smaller cheaper craft for hot lzs are they not?

MaggieL · 07-23-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

The Marines are still going to need smaller cheaper craft for hot lzs are they not?

I don't see why. If an LZ is too hot for a V-22, what else would you send in to get shot up? Helos aren't expendable.

At least a V-22 is less vulnerable and less likely to be tracked visually/aurally enroute.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-23-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

The Marines are still going to need smaller cheaper craft for hot lzs are they not?

The only aircraft I can think of for a hot lz would be an A-10...but that would take a lot of trips.

One of the advantages of the V-22 over the Ch-46, is they can launch from a ship on excursions further inland, then evacuate back to the ship. The ship is a safer base than they'd have in hostile territory.

MaggieL · 07-24-2006, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The only aircraft I can think of for a hot lz would be an A-10...

And LZ isn't an LZ unless you can L there. Is there a secret VTOL version of the A-10?

xoxoxoBruce · 07-24-2006, 06:25 AM

Did he say there was a limit on the size of the lz?

MaggieL · 07-24-2006, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Did he say there was a limit on the size of the lz?

When an LZ exceeds certain size and surfacing constraints it's referred to as an "airport".

xoxoxoBruce · 07-24-2006, 03:07 PM

Wrong, open ground that a plane can set down on is not automatically or necessarily an airport. But you know that already, your just being a pain in the ass.

MaggieL · 07-25-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Wrong, open ground that a plane can set down on is not automatically or necessarily an airport

That comes under "surfacing constraints". Runway penetrators such as the Durandal

are tools for turning airports into LZs by exploiting those constraints.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-25-2006, 09:50 PM

Oh stop it.

MaggieL · 07-26-2006, 05:41 AM

Well, this is a potentially important issue personally: I need to schedule my Biennial Flight Review soon--an every-two-years checkride with an instructor pilot--and it's quite likely at some point during the flight check he'll pull the engine power and tell me I've just lost the engine, to see me go though the engine-out drill. This includes selecting an airport within gliding distance...possibly one whose owner doesn't know it's an airport. :-)

Selecting an LZ instead is considered bad form unless it's the only option.

JayMcGee · 07-27-2006, 06:55 PM

mnmmm......

Back in the '60s, me dad was stationed at RAF Macrihanish, on Kintyre..

At that time, it had the longest runway in the UK, at around the two mile mark.

After we left, NATO (via the USAF) took over the base.... and extended the runway.....

WTF requires a LZ over two miles long?

xoxoxoBruce · 07-27-2006, 09:12 PM

If the runway is very long, they can still use portions if someone tries to sabotage it.
You can line up a shitload of bombers and take off in rapid succession.
Same with landing, when they have a long way to rollout
Could be an alternate landing site for the Space Shuttle.

MaggieL · 07-27-2006, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

WTF requires a LZ over two miles long?

Rumors have F-117s, "Aurora" aircraft and a Navy SEAL detachment operating out of Machrihanish. It's not inconcievable to me that it might have been spruced up as an alternate landing site for SR-71s from the 9th Strategic Reconnaisance Wing Detachment 4 at RAF Mildenhall...if an SR-71 was inbound and Mildenhall suddenly went below minimums or was closed by an accident, it would be nice to have somewhere else private to go without refueling....refueling an SR-71 midair is not a trivial undertaking. In Spring 2005 Machrihanish was NOTAMed for a parachute drop which apparently never happened due to WX.

Two miles sounds like a lot of runway, but 3,000' is a nice comfortable distance for my Cardinal (although it can certainly operate in about half that length if necessary). 27L at KPHL is over 10,000 feet long, and it's typical of largish airports in the US. All runways at the new (for an airport) KDEN are 12,000 feet long. The Shuttle Landing Facility rwy 5/33 at KSC is 15,000 feet long, and it's beleved to be the longest in the world.

While there is information online about US enhancements at Macrihansih, including a new tower, there's no mention of runway lengthening. Looking at Google Maps the biggest runway in the area of Macrihanish looks to be no more than 10,000 feet...is there another big airport nearby? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

07-23-2006, 07:34 AM	#46
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I like the idea of the Osprey but I'm wondering if we're getting into another Hummer situation? Is it a vehicle that's a little too big and a lot too expensive for its intended purpose? The Marines are still going to need smaller cheaper craft for hot lzs are they not? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-24-2006, 06:25 AM	#50
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Did he say there was a limit on the size of the lz? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-24-2006, 03:07 PM	#52
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Wrong, open ground that a plane can set down on is not automatically or necessarily an airport. But you know that already, your just being a pain in the ass. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-25-2006, 09:50 PM	#54
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Oh stop it. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-26-2006, 05:41 AM	#55
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	Well, this is a potentially important issue personally: I need to schedule my Biennial Flight Review soon--an every-two-years checkride with an instructor pilot--and it's quite likely at some point during the flight check he'll pull the engine power and tell me I've just lost the engine, to see me go though the engine-out drill. This includes selecting an airport within gliding distance...possibly one whose owner doesn't know it's an airport. :-) Selecting an LZ instead is considered bad form unless it's the only option. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

07-27-2006, 06:55 PM	#56
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	mnmmm...... Back in the '60s, me dad was stationed at RAF Macrihanish, on Kintyre.. At that time, it had the longest runway in the UK, at around the two mile mark. After we left, NATO (via the USAF) took over the base.... and extended the runway..... WTF requires a LZ over two miles long? __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

07-27-2006, 09:12 PM	#57
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	If the runway is very long, they can still use portions if someone tries to sabotage it. You can line up a shitload of bombers and take off in rapid succession. Same with landing, when they have a long way to rollout Could be an alternate landing site for the Space Shuttle. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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