is America the new Rman Empire?

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

we regard warfare as an aberrant crisis

I would laugh if I actually thought you believed that.

That's a compliment, by the way.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

I would laugh if I actually thought you believed that.

That's a compliment, by the way.

I don't mind; laughter is a good gift to give -- get a good start on your 2007.

We Americans regard a state of war as an abnormal and unfortunate state of affairs. Which does not make us peaceniks, merely sensible. Not, I think, uniquely so, but sensible nonetheless. Bear in mind wars invariably devour wealth; it's a war-college tenet that the execution, prosecution, and evolution of a war is at bottom economic. The winner, as a rule, is that economy that can endure the greater damage, or suffers the less damage.

[Aliantha]

Keep on living in your delusions UG. I'm not even going to bother arguing this one with you considering the fact that it's obvious the actions of the US have been empirical.

EG: HAWAII; ALASKA; HALF THE PACIFIC ISLANDS. (just to name a few)

And lets not forget the failures! ie the countries the US tried to 'settle' with little or no success.

If these types of actions are not empire building then I'd like to know what they are.

So, rather than trying to suggest that the actions of the US have not been empirical, try telling me what you think has changed so that you can support the fact that perhaps the US is no longer empirical.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

EG: HAWAII; ALASKA; HALF THE PACIFIC ISLANDS. (just to name a few)

Whoa, there. We bought Alaska from the Russians. Seward's folly, it was called.
As for Hawaii, the people living there requested the US to take charge. They, missionaries, sailors, fortune hunters, fishermen, planters, from everywhere, had already greatly out numbered and displaced the natives.

[bluecuracao]

So, when do we get to feed Pat Robertson to a puma? Huh? Huh?

[DanaC]

Urbane.....how many countries and islands, has America built military bases on?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Urbane.....how many countries and islands, has America built military bases on?

Come now: how many countries and islands do we get imperial tribute from, eh? How many of these do we colonize these days? I'm listening for the tramping of hordes of settlers and it's so nice and quiet I'm about to go to sleep...:p

How many countries do we lock up their economies into a mercantilist "sell your raw materials only to us, buy manufactured goods of these materials only from us" deal?

Imperialism in large measure springs from a mercantilist economic paradigm. Mercantilism is something we've never really practiced, having gotten too much of a taste of it in the Colonial era, which led directly to the American Revolution -- which in its turn had a great influence on the form and behavior of the British Empire -- rather better, I think, than the behavior of other empires of the last two centuries. Parliament and nation learned something about what not to do by the American example, and it worked rather well -- see Canada, the "pine" part of the "Dominion of palm and pine."

Full-on capitalism in our manner (okay, it's how most humans do capitalism if they at all can) does not encourage imperialism, and is why we're the one non-imperialist great power and superpower.

[Aliantha]

As for Hawaii, the people living there requested the US to take charge. They, missionaries, sailors, fortune hunters, fishermen, planters, from everywhere, had already greatly out numbered and displaced the natives.

Ask the 'natives' now and they'll tell you they'd like their islands back.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Ask the 'natives' now and they'll tell you they'd like their islands back.

Spain wants Central America back. Russia wants eastern Europe back. Japan wants Chins back. I want my youth back. So what, I'd expect them to say that.
The Hawaiian "natives", who were émigrés also, were a bunch of constantly warring tribes. When Kamehameha finally kicked ass, with outside help, and created his kingdom, he delayed any political system developing. And by the time the monarchy ended there were more non-natives than natives, from the four corners of the earth. You'd be hard pressed to define, let alone locate a Hawaiian native.

Anyway, a few planter families had the islands by the short hairs and the majority of the people living there wanted the US to annex the islands and stop the abuse of the majority by the minority. It worked, giving full citizenship rights to the children of the original immigrant laborers that were being oppressed by the planters.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Spain wants Central America back. Russia wants eastern Europe back. Japan wants Chins back. I want my youth back. So what, I'd expect them to say that.
The Hawaiian "natives", who were émigrés also, were a bunch of constantly warring tribes. When Kamehameha finally kicked ass, with outside help, and created his kingdom, he delayed any political system developing. And by the time the monarchy ended there were more non-natives than natives, from the four corners of the earth. You'd be hard pressed to define, let alone locate a Hawaiian native.

Anyway, a few planter families had the islands by the short hairs and the majority of the people living there wanted the US to annex the islands and stop the abuse of the majority by the minority. It worked, giving full citizenship rights to the children of the original immigrant laborers that were being oppressed by the planters.

I wonder where the planters came from? I'm sure they would have benefited from an army coming in to protect them from the 'restless natives' huh?

Who benefits from the US entering these areas? What does the US do with these islands it 'anexes'?

Put lots of big guns on them mostly. Why? To protect themselves from the 'yellow hoard'!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I wonder where the planters came from? I'm sure they would have benefited from an army coming in to protect them from the 'restless natives' huh?

Who benefits from the US entering these areas? What does the US do with these islands it 'anexes'?

Put lots of big guns on them mostly. Why? To protect themselves from the 'yellow hoard'!

Go back and read for comprehension, you've got it exactly ass backwards.

[Aliantha]

We bought Alaska from the Russians

Did anyone bother asking the Inuit tribes how they felt about this transaction?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

We bought Alaska from the Russians

Did anyone bother asking the Inuit tribes how they felt about this transaction?

Why, they didn't own it, unlike the Aborigines. :p

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Why, they didn't own it, unlike the Aborigines. :p

The indigenous tribes of Australia have never claimed to own it. They are part of the land and consider themselves to be an integral part of the natural law.

Much the same as the Inuit I believe you will find.

Under that reasoning, if you've bought the land, you've bought the people also.

Slavery?

We are definitely imperial...
You think it is coincidence that we invaded a nation that was NO THREAT to us IN ANY WAY AT ALL a few years after they discovered they had the world's largest land-locked untapped oil reserve?
Ummmm.... no.
It is an invasion and occupation, nothing else.