Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week - Page 4

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 05:49 PM

Frankly I am disgusted that our country awarded the highest possible accolade to the Saudi royals. And that has bugger all to do with whther they are an Islamic nation or not. The Saudi state is a disgrace. It is deeply oppressive, treats women like non-humans in the eyes of the law, practices mutilation as a way to punish thieves (including children), considers homosexuality a crime worthy of barbaric execution and considers a raped woman to be guilty of adultery unless she can produce 4 witnesses. Add that to the fact that many trade unionists and political activists have been imprisoned, without trial and for long periods and tortured and you have a state that is operating so far outside of International law that a civilised country should not be putting out the red carpet for them.

I couldn't give a toss if they're moslems or not, I do give a toss about their utter disregard for human rights.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-31-2007, 05:58 PM

I agree with Dana.

Though I have heard, and read but I can't find where, that if you are rich in Saudi Arabia, and Iran, you can get away with being gay and that. It does in no way justify what they do but it shows signs of progression.

Not what I'm looking for but here is something.
http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/saud...audinews19.htm

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 06:02 PM

Incidentally. I have been on these boards many times and argued against the rampant Islamaphobia which currently exists in the Uk and I suspect in the US. That said, I find the Wahabi interpretation of Islam to be fundamentally opposed to Western values of human (and in this case human also means female) rights. I will fight to my last breath the rising tide of anti-moslem, racist aggression in this country but I also utterly oppose the the promotion of an interpretation of Islam which dictates that a man has the right and duty to ensure his wife and daughters remain covered up in public, to the point of beating them if they refuse. I object to the idea that children born in this country are taught through, wahabi education programmes and preaching, that women are lesser creatures and that homosexuals deserve to be stoned to death.

"Women should have subordinate positions"

That little girls and little boys are being taught this in my country disgusts me. And I refuse to be labelled anti-moslem because of it. I have moslem friends and they're as appalled by this stuff as I am. I have sat and talked about it with them. It worries them that this kind of extreme teaching is filtering in to otherwise respectable mosques.

Sundae · 10-31-2007, 06:06 PM

Thanks to St Paul, many extremist Christian women are being taught that a woman's place is in the home and subservient to a man. I agree that human rights should always come before religion, especially centuries old paternalistic religions.

I guess that's why we both like Sheri S Tepper, huh?

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 06:10 PM

*laughs* God Bless Sheri! I still think Mavin Manyshaped is why I grew up a feminist....well that and Marion Zimmer Bradley :P

Radar · 10-31-2007, 06:11 PM

The fact of the matter is the so-called Palestinian people weren't thrown in a cage, aren't oppressed by Israel, have never had any land stolen from them, and are only held back by their own actions. The so-called Palestinians aren't wanted by anyone in the middle-east...not even Jordan where 75% of them came from.

Israel didn't create any "situation" for the Palestinians. They did that on their own.

If the so-called Palestinians chose to revolt and start more widespread violence, it would be their own undoing because Israel is fully capable of destroying each and every single one of them, and all of their surrounding nations without any help from America.

Israel just wants to be left the hell alone. Israel is generous and kind and gives food, water, clothing, shelter, etc. to the so-called Palestinians. Israel allows Arab man and women to live, work, vote, and hold political office even though no Arab nation allows Jews or women to do that...and in most cases, the men can't vote either because they are living in a dictatorship or monarchy.

Israel hasn't "screwed over" the so-called Palestinian people. If anything, the opposite is true. Israel has given...and given...and given in hopes of peace, but you can't make peace with those who don't recognize your right to exist. You can't reason with unreasonable people. You can't make peace with those who would give up everything just to see you dead.

As long as the Arab people get it through their heads that Israel is not going anywhere and attacking Israel will result in their own destruction, everything will be fine.

TheMercenary · 11-02-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

The fact of the matter is the so-called Palestinian people weren't thrown in a cage, aren't oppressed by Israel, have never had any land stolen from them, and are only held back by their own actions. The so-called Palestinians aren't wanted by anyone in the middle-east...not even Jordan where 75% of them came from.

Israel didn't create any "situation" for the Palestinians. They did that on their own.

If the so-called Palestinians chose to revolt and start more widespread violence, it would be their own undoing because Israel is fully capable of destroying each and every single one of them, and all of their surrounding nations without any help from America.

Israel just wants to be left the hell alone. Israel is generous and kind and gives food, water, clothing, shelter, etc. to the so-called Palestinians. Israel allows Arab man and women to live, work, vote, and hold political office even though no Arab nation allows Jews or women to do that...and in most cases, the men can't vote either because they are living in a dictatorship or monarchy.

Israel hasn't "screwed over" the so-called Palestinian people. If anything, the opposite is true. Israel has given...and given...and given in hopes of peace, but you can't make peace with those who don't recognize your right to exist. You can't reason with unreasonable people. You can't make peace with those who would give up everything just to see you dead.

As long as the Arab people get it through their heads that Israel is not going anywhere and attacking Israel will result in their own destruction, everything will be fine.

Man, you need a history lesson.

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 06:25 PM

I think this where you and I will have to agree to disagree Radar. We've had this conversation a number of times over the years and I don't believe either of us have moved our position any *smiles*

Radar · 10-31-2007, 06:47 PM

Which brings me full circle and explains why it's better for me to just disassociate myself with those who have views I find deeply offensive. It's a better solution than going columbine on them.

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 06:52 PM

And those are the only two options?

Radar · 10-31-2007, 07:15 PM

I can't help it. When someone says, "Sean Hannity told me to support the president and you're unpatriotic if you don't support the war in Iraq" my only options are to distance myself from them or smash their skull in.

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 07:17 PM

I see. I personally prefer a more middle of the road approach...there are people who actively campaign for racist politics...those I have nothing to do with. I do however have friends who hold mildly racist views.

Radar · 10-31-2007, 07:22 PM

I hate dishonesty, and I hate racism. So I really hate those who are dishonest about their racism....like those who say, "I don't hate Jews, I just hate Zionism". This is like saying, I don't hate Japanese people, I just hate Japan and all the people who live there or support its right to exist.

Happy Monkey · 10-31-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

I hate dishonesty, and I hate racism. So I really hate those who are dishonest about their racism....like those who say, "I don't hate Jews, I just hate Zionism". This is like saying, I don't hate Japanese people, I just hate Japan and all the people who live there or support its right to exist.

Do you hate Palestinians, or do you hate their attempts to claim particular territory, and the tactics they use?

piercehawkeye45 · 11-01-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

I hate dishonesty, and I hate racism. So I really hate those who are dishonest about their racism....like those who say, "I don't hate Jews, I just hate Zionism". This is like saying, I don't hate Japanese people, I just hate Japan and all the people who live there or support its right to exist.

Jews are a group of people. Zionism is an ideology. I hate the Nazi ideology but I do not hate the German people. I hate the neo-conservative ideology but I do not have hate the American people. I hate Zionism ideology but I do not hate Jewish people, catch my drift?

Calling people that support Palestinians anti-semitic is just a way to limit free speech by placing that issue into a category no one wants to go into without political suicide. It is no different than calling people who are anti-immigration racist. Sure some people that are anti-immigration are racist and sure, some people who are pro-Palestinians are anti-semitic but to call everyone who are anti-immigration racist or everyone that supports the Palestinian people anti-semitic is not only using cheap dirty, and invalid, arguing techniques, but it disallows a mature intelligent discussion on the topic and disintegrates it to 5-year old yelling and bitching match.

The only way peace can be restored in Palestine is a one-state solution going through a bi-national state. That is the only way to stop the fighting and establish good relations,even though it will be a long road.

And a question:
Do you think the Palestinian actions are proactive or a result of what their lives are like? You can never assume that their standard of living is even close to ours, most have no hope for any future. And remember, groups like Hamas didn't start showing up until the 1980s, a good 30 years after the Israeli state was established.

For the "the Jews deserve a homeland" shit. I understand the Jews have been through the hardest times out of almost any group of people but they knew there would be conflict if an Israeli state was established in Palestine so why the hell do we blame Bush for Iraq when he knew how fucked up it will be but not the Israeli fundamentalists, notice how I do not blame all Israelites, when they knew this sort of conflict would erupt? Quee summed up my other argument very well for that.

10-31-2007, 06:06 PM	#4
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Thanks to St Paul, many extremist Christian women are being taught that a woman's place is in the home and subservient to a man. I agree that human rights should always come before religion, especially centuries old paternalistic religions. I guess that's why we both like Sheri S Tepper, huh? __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

10-31-2007, 06:11 PM	#6
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	The fact of the matter is the so-called Palestinian people weren't thrown in a cage, aren't oppressed by Israel, have never had any land stolen from them, and are only held back by their own actions. The so-called Palestinians aren't wanted by anyone in the middle-east...not even Jordan where 75% of them came from. Israel didn't create any "situation" for the Palestinians. They did that on their own. If the so-called Palestinians chose to revolt and start more widespread violence, it would be their own undoing because Israel is fully capable of destroying each and every single one of them, and all of their surrounding nations without any help from America. Israel just wants to be left the hell alone. Israel is generous and kind and gives food, water, clothing, shelter, etc. to the so-called Palestinians. Israel allows Arab man and women to live, work, vote, and hold political office even though no Arab nation allows Jews or women to do that...and in most cases, the men can't vote either because they are living in a dictatorship or monarchy. Israel hasn't "screwed over" the so-called Palestinian people. If anything, the opposite is true. Israel has given...and given...and given in hopes of peace, but you can't make peace with those who don't recognize your right to exist. You can't reason with unreasonable people. You can't make peace with those who would give up everything just to see you dead. As long as the Arab people get it through their heads that Israel is not going anywhere and attacking Israel will result in their own destruction, everything will be fine. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 06:47 PM	#9
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Which brings me full circle and explains why it's better for me to just disassociate myself with those who have views I find deeply offensive. It's a better solution than going columbine on them. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 07:15 PM	#11
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I can't help it. When someone says, "Sean Hannity told me to support the president and you're unpatriotic if you don't support the war in Iraq" my only options are to distance myself from them or smash their skull in. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 07:22 PM	#13
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I hate dishonesty, and I hate racism. So I really hate those who are dishonest about their racism....like those who say, "I don't hate Jews, I just hate Zionism". This is like saying, I don't hate Japanese people, I just hate Japan and all the people who live there or support its right to exist. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 05:49 PM	#1
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Frankly I am disgusted that our country awarded the highest possible accolade to the Saudi royals. And that has bugger all to do with whther they are an Islamic nation or not. The Saudi state is a disgrace. It is deeply oppressive, treats women like non-humans in the eyes of the law, practices mutilation as a way to punish thieves (including children), considers homosexuality a crime worthy of barbaric execution and considers a raped woman to be guilty of adultery unless she can produce 4 witnesses. Add that to the fact that many trade unionists and political activists have been imprisoned, without trial and for long periods and tortured and you have a state that is operating so far outside of International law that a civilised country should not be putting out the red carpet for them. I couldn't give a toss if they're moslems or not, I do give a toss about their utter disregard for human rights.

10-31-2007, 05:58 PM	#2
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I agree with Dana. Though I have heard, and read but I can't find where, that if you are rich in Saudi Arabia, and Iran, you can get away with being gay and that. It does in no way justify what they do but it shows signs of progression. Not what I'm looking for but here is something. http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/saud...audinews19.htm

10-31-2007, 06:02 PM	#3
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Incidentally. I have been on these boards many times and argued against the rampant Islamaphobia which currently exists in the Uk and I suspect in the US. That said, I find the Wahabi interpretation of Islam to be fundamentally opposed to Western values of human (and in this case human also means female) rights. I will fight to my last breath the rising tide of anti-moslem, racist aggression in this country but I also utterly oppose the the promotion of an interpretation of Islam which dictates that a man has the right and duty to ensure his wife and daughters remain covered up in public, to the point of beating them if they refuse. I object to the idea that children born in this country are taught through, wahabi education programmes and preaching, that women are lesser creatures and that homosexuals deserve to be stoned to death. "Women should have subordinate positions" That little girls and little boys are being taught this in my country disgusts me. And I refuse to be labelled anti-moslem because of it. I have moslem friends and they're as appalled by this stuff as I am. I have sat and talked about it with them. It worries them that this kind of extreme teaching is filtering in to otherwise respectable mosques.

10-31-2007, 06:10 PM	#5
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	laughs God Bless Sheri! I still think Mavin Manyshaped is why I grew up a feminist....well that and Marion Zimmer Bradley :P

10-31-2007, 06:25 PM	#8
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I think this where you and I will have to agree to disagree Radar. We've had this conversation a number of times over the years and I don't believe either of us have moved our position any smiles

10-31-2007, 06:52 PM	#10
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	And those are the only two options?

10-31-2007, 07:17 PM	#12
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I see. I personally prefer a more middle of the road approach...there are people who actively campaign for racist politics...those I have nothing to do with. I do however have friends who hold mildly racist views.

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