Any grapic artists willing to help a fellow cellarite?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by monster

What about costs for taxes, insurance, wastage, (healthcare)? Kickbacks to the local plods, and licences you may need?

Licenses, permits etc. will cost about $300/year max.

Healthcare will be purchased from the profits. My wife and daughter will be employees and I'll deduct this from my taxes at the end of the year for however much of my income gets reported.

[Radar]

I was thinking about the dog with horns on it. It made me think of another good name.....

DEVIL DOGS


Florida already has a chain called Hot Dog Heaven, so Devil Dogs would be a natural competitor.

[Shawnee123]

I like it. More hot-doggish.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I like it. More hot-doggish.

It looks like it's taken....at least in Idaho.


http://www.devildoghotdogs.com

[Radar]

In Florida they have a place called "Ham Heaven & Devil Dogs". I'm not sure if a hot dog cart named "Devil Dogs" would be considered an infringement on this name.

http://www.merchantcircle.com/busine...s.941-923-2514



What do you guys think is best? Horn Dogs? or Devil Dogs?

[monster]

I never thought i's say this, but... you rock

[Radar]

Those are cheap dogs for NYC. My guess is they are that cheap because there are so many carts. If there were a single cart there, you can bet you wouldn't get a dog for less than $6

[Shawnee123]

How about "Satan's Weiner"?

j/k...I like Devil Dogs.

[sweetwater]

A friendly mascot dog would be more flexible for branding. You could have an entire family with specials that duplicate the 3 Bears sort of thing: Daddy Dog is a big combo, Mommy Dog smaller, down to the Puppy which is just a hot dog. Some people think hot dogs are summer fun food. Me? Not so much. Not ever, no never, would I eat off a cart. That said, Legal Seafood has a nice history to their name and perhaps something along those lines could convince the cautious among us to try one. Good Dogs?
There are a couple of ideas tickling my imagination but I have a bad cold and can't think things through. If I recover soon enough then I'll send some sketches.

[footfootfoot]

Sweet makes a good point re: branding. Who is you audience? bible belt families or girls gone wild on spring break? The devil might appeal more to the latter sensibility.

Yeah food in nyc as a rule is much cheaper than anywhere else. Leaving out the ultra fancy places. There is a ton of competition and an enormous distribution network. The volume can't be matched.

[Radar]

It's a hot dog with horns. I doubt even the most whacko Christian zealot would be put off with the name.

I actually lightened it up.

I was considering calling the Angry German the Hitler, and offering Italian Sausage & Peppers and calling it the Mussolini with other combos named after other famous residents of hell. Perhaps one named after Jesse Helms.

[slang]

Hey Radar,

I'd like to make a few suggestions as someone that makes regular moves, often 1000 miles or so away, every year. Most of the time to completely unfamiliar places not knowing one single person there.

1. You spearhead your dream business venture. You go down to FL yourself, alone. Make a pact that you'll go there first for some specified period of time ( say a month ) and get on the ground information that you'll need to get this thing going.

Keep your mind thinking about all the tangent issues that will affect your business while you're there. There are the obvious details and the not so obvious details. Be a sponge of everything going on there, even those things that you don't believe will be of value at the moment.

"Game" the situation in your mind every few days. What if this, what if that. How might this help, what might hurt my business?

Go there and do the doing. Don't go and look around. You want to make a real go at this, then get your gear prepped and go sell them. Don't wait for everything to be perfect, test this area and that area. Look for anyone selling dogs or anything similar that you might learn from.

Don't wait for everything to be completely set up before you start. Can't start without a license? Fine. Then find a place to push the cart empty as a test to see how many people seem interested. Minimize your risk.

Do your test marketing in different areas. You want to experience what it's like to do this business? You want to see the potential pitfalls before it costs you real money? Then pick a spot away from your intended target area and practice where it wont hurt you.

Have some little thing to sell besides dogs and tell those people that approach you and your doggie cart " Oh, I'm sorry, all out of dogs at the moment, would you like a Coke?"

Keep track of every variable and log it. Study everything before you go live. Even people that might be kicking you out of any given area will be a learning experience for you and will yield some informational benefit.

Worst case if you get into confict with the local law enforcement, you explain you're from Cali and just got laid off. Have a few pics of your wife and LOTS of pics of your baby girl.

"Just trying to keep my wife and kids from starving Sir. Life is rough in Cali nowdays."

Other vendors might think you're a jackass and kick you out of their area but you most likely will not get into any real trouble.

If that happens try to conceal that combative side of yourself. Just leave while learning what you can.

2. Transportation. Drive to Florida. Don't fly. You will need a car or truck to haul your gear around. If you have an older car, take the passenger seat out and put it somewhere safe. You can install it later. What you need is something very common looking that you can haul your equipment around in that doesn't scream "I'm a business!"

Disassemble the cart to fit where the death seat used to be. If you want to do this with the least risk you don't need a fancy car and looking pathetic can work in your favor.

Drive the car to Florida and sleep during the day at the rest stops. It'll save you money and you'll be uncomfortable but safe. Driving at night is more efficient and you wont have to protect your dog cart from people that might believe it's something they might take to the pawn shop for some cash.

As you drive the long journey you'll have plenty of time to think. You'll also be uncomfortable. That's a part of the benefit. Comfort comes later. Now is the time for the work and the cheap living.

Once you arrive in your target area, maybe staying with a relative or friend start observing. Don't worry about what you look like with a dog cart in your car, you can push the cart far away from the car when you are selling in live mode.

If the cart fits in your car your chances of success are much greater because you can do that completely independantly without hassling anyone else with YOUR dream business.

People might laugh at first but when your biz takes off you can politely tell them to go eff themselves.

This will also test your resolve.

"I look like a complete jackass with a dog cart in my car. Passing motorists look at me cautiously out of the corner of their eye. Am I crazy for even doing this?"

If the answer is yes at the moment you can pack it all in and head back home. It's a long drive so it wont be something you can do quickly in a weak moment.

Call your wife and baby every few days while your spearheading your dream biz. When you have a good day, call and let your wife hear in your voice that it's going to work. That it is in fact working. Don't tell her in words, let her hear it in your voice. When you're having a bad day don't call.

The best evidence of success will be the fistfulls of cash you'll be bringing back. Until that money materializes you will be your own cheering squad. Do not underestimate the importance of keeping your morale up on your own.

At the end of your "setup" period you'll either have made money or kept the experiment from costing you a small fotune. Either case you can keep the respect of your wife ( if that matters to you ).

And, at the end of this entire trip you will have learned enough to make moving your wife and baby there much easier. If you do move there you will have a great deal of confidence of making this work. Most of the guesswork you will have already dealt with.


So, while I do believe that this is a terrible time personally to try something like this I do realize that there are many people, like you, that may actually be able to make this work.

A few years ago a friend told me about this really cool biz that he was getting into and is doing well at it now. I would never have guessed that he would. I do know that I personally could not have.

Hopefully you will find something of value in this and I wish you the best of luck.

[Radar]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful and insightful advice Slang.

I've moved more than most people ever will. I probably moved more than 20 times before I was 21. A couple of those moves were coast to coast...well almost; New York to California and Las Vegas to New Orleans. I drove from Las Vegas to New Orleans in 26 hours without stopping. I was young and stupid and would never do this again. I was in a pickup truck with most of my worldly goods loaded in the back and I thought if I stopped to sleep at a rest stop, the truck would be empty before I woke up.

I don't have the cart yet. I planned on getting one in Orlando. The best one I've seen is manufactured there and isn't as expensive as those made in California. This eliminates the need to tow it there. Any dog cart would be WAY to big to fit into my car.

Like you suggested, I planned to go ahead of my wife and daughter so I can leave them here with her family members for support. I will stay with my aunt Linda and uncle Manny. Uncle Manny has a dog cart that he runs in Florida for extra retirement money the government doesn't know about. Hot dog money = cash.

Uncle Manny only runs the cart 2 or 3 days a week. My plan was to work the cart with him for awhile until I feel comfortable, then work his cart on the days he normally doesn't and split the money with him. Then when I really felt that I have the business down from scoping out locations, to doing prep work in the morning, making really good dogs, sausages, brats, etc. to doing cleanup and storage at night, I'd go ahead and buy my own cart.

My dad will probably go there with me if possible.

While in Ocala, we'll take fairly frequent trips to Orlando to check out spots for the business, and places to live. He'd also be looking for work in Orlando. He's a maintenance mechanic and electrician. Maybe Disney needs someone like that. They don't tend to pay well though.

I figure I'd be there 2 or 3 months before we really get settled with an apartment. Then I'll bring my wife over. She'll have no problem getting work at nail salons. I will stay in an apartment for 6 months or so until I feel really confident in the business and acclimated to the area.

Then we'd buy a cheap house for cash (less than $80k which isn't tough in Florida) or put a very large down payment on a house so our payments are next to nothing.


I've already spoken to uncle Manny about the licenses and permits required and they're not tough at all. I've been reading books and listening to CD's put out by people who run hot dog businesses with tips and suggestions and what to expect.

My wife isn't confident in the hot dog thing, but once she sees the money, she'll be on board. Last year I worked with my wife to pay off all credit cards, student loans, personal loans, and our car. We are debt free. I intend to stay that way.

The good news is since we have no payments, our cost of living will be very cheap and we'll be able to swing the bills without much problem, especially if we've got 3 working adults in the house since my dad will be staying with us.

The bad news is this is going to KILL my mother. She will accuse me of doing it to hurt her. In the end, I've got to take care of my family and that's more important than staying in a state where I can't make it just to make her happy. If I could afford it, I'd take her with me....though my mom and dad can't be near each other without blood.

Since I'll be starting off with uncle Manny's cart and using his licenses, I won't have any problem with Johnny law. Uncle Manny says he'll take me by city hall to get a map of all the zoning so I know where I can setup. Then I'll tour those areas and look for what I believe is the best spot and get to work.


I appreciate you taking the time to make such a detailed post and it's got a lot of really great advice. We think alike more than you think...which might frighten you.

-Radar


P.S. - Thanks for the luck, I'll need it.

[slang]

Looks to me like you've got all the big pitfalls covered.

* Relatives to stay with ( reduces costs and risk )
* Relative that will be a mentor in the busines (Uncle Manny and him allowing the use of his cart until you go live)
* Backup cash/zero debt or bills.
* Family support for your wife. Until the cash flows she'll most likely not be on board. When it does she might try to take credit for the whole idea.


You're in a prime position.

Now, let me add something else.

I'm here in rural Indiana. It's cheap living here and there are three world class ortho products corporations with good blue and white collar jobs available. This area has been insulated from the obvious downturns in towns not far away. That could change overnight.

Food prices are increasing. People are spending less. We don't know what's coming next. The market continues it's decline. Gold and silver are up 20-30% over the last 3 months. There are more people on UC now than ever before.

Times are tough. It seems perfectly plausible that they are going to get much worse.

My point is that I'm skeptical that people in large numbers are going to be ready willing and able to spend money on dogs rather than going to the supermarket and cook them at home. Or as my inlaws often do, prepare foods before going out and eating those cheap home cooked foods on location.

If there is an event that changes the dynamics of the game you may have foods too expensive for the times. This is not all that unrealistic in my mind. You may also have an expensive cart with no customers.

Alternate action:

If you can ditribute dogs throughout a crowd with your cart, you may also distribute "other items" that may be more suited for the times.

You decide what "other items" might be.

If you game the situation ahead of time you may be able to take a profitable venture of selling dogs here and there into an embarassingly profitable venture should the excrement hit the fan.

And I do believe that we think alike that doesn't frighten me. As we decline into chaos we may each find that we have much more common ground than we might think.

As the money evaporates out of the US things are going to change. Survival may become more important than arguing.

Or not. Who knows?

Go for the biz. You're in good shape.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by slang

My point is that I'm skeptical that people in large numbers are going to be ready willing and able to spend money on dogs rather than going to the supermarket and cook them at home. Or as my inlaws often do, prepare foods before going out and eating those cheap home cooked foods on location.

If the location is an office area, however, you might pick up increased business from the workers who are scaling back from actual restaurant lunches.