For discussion: If you were a pedophile

[DanaC]

Depends on if they were married or not.

Rape in marriage was only recognised in UK law in the mid 90s. Prior to that it was considered impossible for a husband to 'rape' his wife as she'd effectively given life-time consent to sex at any time that her husband wanted by dint of her saying yes at the altar.

Also, whilst rape was often used (and is still often used) as a form of intimidation in war, there was also a common attitude until very recently (and indeed some people still take this view) that when a woman says 'no' she means 'yes'. In fact, in courtship it was for a long time considered proper for the woman to protest and for the man to persuade forcibly. That showed that she was properly demure and he was properly manly.

[Cloud]

. . . or that women were at fault in rape because they were somehow alluring. I think this is what some perps feel about kids, too--that they are seductive, and teasing the man.

More understanding of the causes and cures is certainly in order, because at this point, we are just going through trial and error. At least it's a problem that's being talked about and somewhat addressed now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Don't....... Stop.
Don't.... Stop.
Don't.. Stop.
Don't stop.
Don'tstop.
Don'tstop.
Don'tstop.

Like that, Dana?

[Cloud]

it's a zipper!

[sean]

Originally Posted by Cloud

It seems to me that pedophilia isn't a choice (and who would choose it?); it's more of a sexual orientation. [...]

But let's say you are a young man, and you come to realize that your sexual preference really is prepubescent children. What the hell do you do?

-try to ignore it? and hope it doesn't become so compelling that you become a predator
--try therapy? which doesn't seem to be of much help
--give in to it and hate yourself, or disassociate your actions so much you don't even acknowledge it?
--become a priest or a boy scout leader?
--blow your head off because there's no hope?

I just don't know. And glad it's not me!

Hi Cloud.

These are good questions and demonstrate greater than usual humanity toward this population. With expansion of human rights and equality to previously excluded groups, paedophilia has become a last resort for legitimate prejudice and scapegoating. Indeed, despising paedophiles allows a rare opportunity for ordinary people to assert their feelings of moral superiority and bolster their personal self image.

As somebody who is attracted to children --and who has been conscious of and self-conscious about these feelings since well before puberty, and who has NEVER committed any kind of sexual offence-- I can tell you it is difficult living with paedophilia, but also that much of the difficulty stems from unremitting social stigma and intolerance. I can also tell you that most paedophiles do not abuse children, and that much -probably most- child sexual abuse of children is perpetrated by non-paedophiles.

Anyway, you mentioned some options, so I'll comment on them...

-try to ignore it? and hope it doesn't become so compelling that you become a predator

This is the worst possible strategy, but unfortunately it is the one most paedophiles settle on. The reason for this is that most internalize the following syllogism:

1. paedophiles are bad
2. i am a paedophile
3. i am bad

Being intrinsically beyond redemption, a paedophile has no motive to analyze his situation, attitudes or behaviour, and no motive to seek help, support or advice. Instead he goes into a state of denial and keeps his feelings hidden, even from himself. This can be a recipe for disaster.

--try therapy? which doesn't seem to be of much help


Paedophilia is a stable sexual orientation. Unfortunately the majority of therapists are poorly trained in this area. Information about paedophilia is heavily biased toward forensic and child protection agendas, and offers little comfort to paedophiles themselves. Therapists have become fixated on 'reparative' therapies, much as they did until very recently with homosexuality.

This failed duty of care reflects very poorly on clinical standards. These services must be free, informed and confidential, yet in many jurisdictions, therapists are mandated to report paedophile clients to authorities. Obviously this will guarantee that no sensible paedophile will ever seek voluntary help there.

As it happens, despite some very bad experiences, over the years I've found two separate therapists who have been a huge help to me. Both of these have been very kind and accepting, and have reassured me that my orientation is not a moral failing or a mental illness. Its hard to convey how healing this has been for me. It's paralyzing to experience one's nature as fundamentally at odds with one's own values of care and empathy, and even worse to feel deeply ashamed of it and compelled to keep it a secret. The negative psychological consequences of intense stigma have been well canvassed in discussions of homosexuality, and its no different for paedophiles.

For me, this therapy has been invaluable, but only because my therapists were sympathetic and supportive and never sought to pathologize or change my orientation. This isn't to suggest that they never sought to ensure my conduct remain within accepted social constraints. This objective was sometimes much on their minds, and that priority was accepted by me as relevant. I should also point out that I paid for all of this therapy myself, spending many thousands of dollars. For many minor attracted people, such self funding is simply not an option.

--give in to it and hate yourself, or disassociate your actions so much you don't even acknowledge it?

This option pretty much goes hand in hand with the first one -try to ignore it. They are the poles of a single complex and reinforce each other. A person ignores his situation, does nothing to process it in a conscious way, forces it into the subconcious realms of his instinctive behaviour, and then finds himself acting out in ways he maybe hoped he wouldn't. Unable to confront the reality of his actions, he pushes them further underground, strengthens his denial and the cycle continues. This is why self-acceptance is so fundamental to self management, and why stigma is so counter-productive.

--become a priest or a boy scout leader?

Believe it or not, this is a popular option, and one i think should be perfectly acceptable. Personally I'd prefer to hang out with Brownies than Boy Scouts, but so long as appropriate conduct is maintained with the children, i don't see the problem. I've often gone out of my way to spend time with kids, especially in the years since I've learned to feel less inhibited and ashamed of my orientation. I've had some really great friendships with them, and not a few remain close friends as adults, fully aware of my orientation.

--blow your head off because there's no hope?

I first sought therapy after a suicide attempt. Being male, this wasn't a 'cry for help', it was a serious attempt to end my life. It was only by pure luck that I survived. It gave me a big scare and utterly changed my attitude to my condition, leading to me where I am now. Things are still difficult for me sometimes, but the difficulties are mainly extrinsic, presented by society, rather than by a lot of emotional knots twisting up my insides.

cont...

[sean]

cont. from above...

So, in conclusion...

I'll tell you about the strategies that have worked for me. To begin with, I've come to recognize that my orientation isn't simply a sexual attraction to children, its a generalized orientation, and has a strong nurturing component to it. It's instinctive in the way that motherhood is instinctive. Altho my sexual feelings are undeniable, they are far from central or demanding of attention or satisfaction.

I've also learned to be open with people about my feelings. I don't go shouting about it from the rooftops, but that's not because I'm ashamed, it's becos of the level of prejudice, intolerance, hostility and violence shown toward people like me by society. Its depressing that this level of bigotry is so acceptable to otherwise civilized people.

Despite this, I'm optimistic things will change for the better. Plenty of people who've engaged with me on this issue in the past few years have reappraised their initial prejudices and have come to show me their trust, kindness, respect and understanding, so i know it's possible. I have a sizable circle of friends and family who know about my orientation, and most are quite happy for me to spend time with their children.

I've fallen in love with children on two or three occasions. These haven't been trivial pseudo-experiences, they have been profound and involving personal journeys. It was grief over the absence of a beloved child that precipitated my suicide attempt. Grieving in silence and secrecy is very difficult. I've always felt a responsibility to shield children from the burden of these kinds of feelings, and I think this applies as much to parental love as to the romantic variety. I'm dedicated to the idea that it is the adult's duty to meet children's needs and not the other way around. I've also had children show me strong affection and emotional commitment. When a child shows love for an adult, there's a serious responsibility to safeguard that child's trust and not betray them in any way. That's my guiding ethos.

As for expressing my sexual feelings in private, well I don't collect child pornography, but i do have a lot of children's books in my shelves, and sometimes in the illustrations, careless little girls let their knickers show! I find it next to impossible not to think about children when I masturbate, but I don't think about masturbating at all when I'm with children. In my experience, children in fantasy are quite different to real life children, who have a way of focusing attention on their real needs. The more contact I have with real life children, the less inclined i am to confuse them with the fantastic variety.

This is part of a pattern: the more consciously I reflect on the situation I and others like me are in, and the more effort I put into educating those around me about our challenges and struggles, then the more honorable and worthwhile I feel. I feel less trapped and far, far less vulnerable to any impulsive or compulsive acting out.

I think society, especially that small element of it that has some capacity for rational insight, bears a heavy burden of responsibility to develop a more mature stance in it's attitudes to paedophilia, and also needs to confront some of its own anxieties around sexuality, and child sexuality in particular. I was eleven when my romantic interest in little girls first occasioned comment from adults. At the time it was no big deal, but by the time I was seventeen I'd grown to feel perverted, isolated and ashamed. Children are taught in school that sex is fraught with danger, that evil paedophiles lurk in every playground, but a sizable number of these children are going to grow into men who themselves experience some sexual attraction to children. These feelings are far more common than is generally acknowledged, and unless they are discussed and allowed some acceptable avenue for exploration and expression, they will cause misery for someone.

Of course children deserve protection from sexual abuse, but all too often this 'protection' is simply a cipher for social control of their sexuality and of sexuality in general. Children themselves are now being routinely subjected to accusations of sexual abuse of peers and are subsequently exposed to serious institutional abuse by the judicial system. As if sexual curiosity were a heinous crime.

In many historical contexts, paedophilic feelings in adults have been recognized as a source of authentic and selfless love and devotion that can play an important role in the education and nurturing of children. Unless society recognizes this capacity for good in adults who are attracted to children, those adults will seek alternative, and sometimes malignant ways to meet their emotional needs.

cheers
sean.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Wow... much to think about. Thanks.

[sean]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Wow... much to think about. Thanks.

No problem. Thanks for publishing.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I'm having trouble digesting this, honestly, because it's so contrary to my preconceived notions I've had for over half a century. I'm going to have to reread it a couple of times, over a couple of days, and digest it.

You haven't changed my mind yet, but it's got me thinking.

[sean]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

...it's got me thinking.

My work is done!

[DanaC]

Fascinating stuff, sean. Bloody brave too.

Thank you.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by sean

My work is done!

Oh I sincerely hope not :P Stick around, you might find the place interesting

[sean]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Oh I sincerely hope not :P Stick around, you might find the place interesting

Thanks DanaC. I'm definitely encouraged by the response so far.

[capnhowdy]

This is the first time I've had any first hand info from anyone on this topic. So prior to Sean's post(s), I must admit that my views were based totally on hearsay.

[Clodfobble]

I was able to follow along with what you were saying, right up until this point:

Originally Posted by sean

Of course children deserve protection from sexual abuse, but all too often this 'protection' is simply a cipher for social control of their sexuality and of sexuality in general. Children themselves are now being routinely subjected to accusations of sexual abuse of peers and are subsequently exposed to serious institutional abuse by the judicial system. As if sexual curiosity were a heinous crime.

Screeching halt. Standard party line of many abusive pedophiles is that what they are doing is not abuse if the child is willing. And I take issue with the assertion that "children" in the sense you mean are going through the judicial system--worst case scenario is teenagers being accused of statutory rape with their teenage girlfriends. You are not discussing teenagers, you are discussing little children. I think there may have been one story that I can recall in the last 10 years about a kindergartener who was suspended for kissing another kindergartener on the playground. That's hardly "insitutional abuse" by the "judicial system."

When you insert this topic in with the rest, your sincerity takes a big hit.