Bush Gored!

[hermit22]

Originally posted by Undertoad
<i>The German disco...was bombed because it was a popular hangout for US soldiers</i>

Yup, who were there by accident, probably visiting their grandparents.

Oh, wait - they were defending Europe!

Well perhaps Europe will have less trouble with such events when the US pulls its troops out of Germany, and Germany has to deal with the Mossad directly. And Europe has to deal with Germany directly.

Hmm, maybe you missed those two events of the 20th century called WORLD WAR I and WORLD WAR II, after which the rest of the world decided Germany couldn't be trusted with military power - and many Germans agreed. In fact, that's one of the reasons why Germany is so liberal - they are cognizant of their country's history and don't want to do it again.

Attacking the Israeli embassy is akin to attacking Israel, it has nothing to do with France.

Everything is normal. Nothing to see here. Keep humming and everything will be alright.

Hey, it's okay if Europe is late to this war. (I'm speaking about the unstated war here, the war against radical Islam.) After all, the US was not ready in 1939.

Is that even a response? France and the rest of Europe have been dealing with modern terrorism for more than 2 decades. If anyone's late to the terrorist war, if that's what you're even talking about here, it's us. Again.

In the US we spell it Octoberfest. And sometimes it takes place at chain seafood restaurants.

Speak for your part of the US. I've only seen it spelled with a k.
That would be like celebrating Sinko de Myo or some such crap. It's cultural unawareness to do so (though obviously not as blatant as my example).

"Not to mention using biological agents on his own people." (HIS OWN PEOPLE! While it's a vile act, it wasn't his 'own' people; the Kurds wanted an independent state, and many were organized in a terrorist-communist organization. The PKK, no 25 (out of 34) on the state department's list of terrorist organizations.)

Actually, the only link I've seen offered between al-Qaeda and Iraq is the PKK, who offered refuge to al-Qaeda members fleeing from Afghanistan. So the link is an opposition group to the government? Then why aren't we offering aid like we are to Indonesia, the Philippines, Russia...

My own guess is that the terrorists don't give two shits about what a nation's policies are, if the policies are set in place by infidels.

Terrorist != hater of infidel. Read The Monkeywrench Gang. I doubt any of them, or the people that followed the example of the book's characters actually cared about the religion of those in government. Terrorism takes different forms, and there is currently over 160 definitions of a 'terrorist.'

[Undertoad]

<i>You don't seem to be aware of the amount of troops stationed in Germany right now. Do some research before posting, please. </i>

I had thought it was 50,000. It's actually 70,000.

<i>It seems that if you don't actively piss off people, they don't want to kill you.</i>

Unfortunately just *existing* pisses a lot of people off.

<i>Since nobody seems willing to attack the actual content of my posts, rather than the presentation,</i>

I'll tell you what, I haven't had anyone attack me so directly and personally in a long time. Your memory of personal details and willingness to attack on that basis is simply remarkable.

But in the post where you said I must be a Fox News viewer, and then later in the same post, saying I watch too much CNN... I don't know, that was a bit over the top.

[hermit22]

Originally posted by Undertoad

Unfortunately just *existing* pisses a lot of people off.

Riiiiight. A lot of people? Refer to my earlier post about anti-Americanism.

But in the post where you said I must be a Fox News viewer, and then later in the same post, saying I watch too much CNN... I don't know, that was a bit over the top.

Before the advent of Fox news, cnn came to be a generic term, much like xerox or coke. So, in those terms, what he said was not contradictory.

[jaguar]

OK, sorry for the hyperbole on my part, my point was that we all know you're a busy college student, so you don't need to remind us all the time. If you don't have time to make all the points you want to, make them next week; we'll still be here. I do the same thing; I'm on my way out the door and want to make a point real quick, but then I say something stupid like how we used to "help Iraq fight the Soviet Union" in the 80's, which I'm surprised as hell no one called me out on.

Its basicly to say - i havn't address all the points i wanted to so don't think your points are going to go unchallanged. I usually check cellar in the morning befor ei go out and then when i come back, often i jsut don't ahve neough time in the morning, and don't anyone suggest getting up early, thats blasphemy.

I agree, if there's no firm evidence then we shouldn't do anything. But I think there is firm evidence that most of us aren't privvy to. There is news on the wires this morning about Rumsfeld sharing newfound intel with UN members that links Iraq to al Qaeda. Yes, it may well be more carefully-timed media puppeteering.

Do you accept your cooountry going to war, or even suggesting going to war on teh basis 'oh yes, we have proof, we just can't show you, so beleive us and shut up'?

Well again, those aren't weapons your links are talking about. The fact we sold them biological agents for study in good intention doesn't say much.

Yea....study....mmmm..........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa. ahem. Ok then....

The Senate report also makes clear that: 'The United States provided the government of Iraq with 'dual use' licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programmes.'

Ill admit i misquoted one of the first links, claim it was for 'study' all you want, ill just sit here and laugh your pathetic attempts to ignroe the truth, even Tobiasly admit is for crying out loud, theres no point trying to argue with it. I mean in the same breath i'm expecting you to tell me the stuff america sells Taiwan is for 'research purposes' or the US pile of nukes are for 'testing only'. Lets 'study' some VX nerve gas, thats real ambigious eh. Realpolitik. Please.

We are well past the era where we can afford to act reactively to attacks against us. Regimes run by homicidal maniacs who hate the U.S. having WMD is something we can't let happen. Sure, Saddam may be interested only in regional domination, but what happens when he dies 15 years from now? Who takes over.. his charming son Uday? Maybe someone else who's interested in more than regional power?

And what if some al-Qaeda insider offers him a few million for just one long-range missile capable of dispersing VX nerve gas over an entire city?

You know pakistan is pretty kooky and they have nukes. China sells stuff all the time and they have nukes. Russia is full of decaying nukes. The lsit of countires that have chem and or bio weapons is jsut too long, why is there no regime change there?

[elSicomoro]

Jaguar, I hereby rule that you use the "I'm too busy" rationale way too much, thereby making yourself look like a crackhead.

The Kangaroo Court of Platanus Occidentalis recommends the following procedure be performed: You should create a notepad file, in which you type the subject of the thread you want to address, the person whose post you want to address, and a few lines about what you want to say in response. The Court believes that you will not only be able to construct better posts, but that they will be almost free of spelling and grammatical errors.

We are adjourned.

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by jaguar
Do you accept your cooountry going to war, or even suggesting going to war on teh basis 'oh yes, we have proof, we just can't show you, so beleive us and shut up'?

I accept that if Bush convinces most of the people in the U.N., and most of the Democrats in congress, that there is justifiable reason to use military force to overthrow Saddam, then there probably is justifiable reason.

Why? Because Saddam is a maniac. As much as Xugamad would like to believe he has refuted that notion, one of the dictionary definitions of <I>maniac</I> is "A person who acts in a wildly irresponsible way". Based on the evidence I've seen of Saddam's actions over the past ten years, I'd say that describes him.. wildly irresponsible.

So, I already accept that he's a maniac. I don't need an irrefutable smoking gun; I just need to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the maniac may have the means to kill lots of Americans.

[jaguar]

He can bully the UN far too easily sadly, doesn't prove much, merely political power. There is a good reason allies on this are few and far between. I mean has anyone looked at the blair dossier? Dossier being a nice word for rehashed version for what we know - how with a flashy new upperclass title. If that is the best they can do i think they're going to have trouble convincing anyone.

syc - ill give it a shot

[juju]

Originally posted by Tobiasly
Why? Because Saddam is a maniac. As much as Xugamad would like to believe he has refuted that notion, one of the dictionary definitions of <I>maniac</I> is "A person who acts in a wildly irresponsible way". Based on the evidence I've seen of Saddam's actions over the past ten years, I'd say that describes him.. wildly irresponsible.

That definition is stupid. Don't you think it's a little too general?

Maniac, indeed. If that's the definition of maniac, then i've been one for years.

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by juju
That definition is stupid. Don't you think it's a little too general?

Maniac, indeed. If that's the definition of maniac, then i've been one for years.

I'm not in favor of you having nukes, either.

[juju]

So, do you agree or disagree that the definition is overly broad?

juju, that's the definition. That's what the word means. If you fit the definition, then you are one - by definition. None of this "the definition is overly broad" - it can't be, because <b>that's the definition</b>.

[juju]

I disagree. The dictionary is wrong!

[elSicomoro]

Oh shit...you having another hypoglycemic attack, juju?