So, B of A and the $5.00 debit card

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Well, merchants will either pocket the money or lower prices, depending on the competitiveness of prices in their business, so everyone but BofA debit card users will be unaffected or better off. If enough people drop their BofA debit cards, they may have to drop the charge, or provide some sort of service to make their debit cards more attractive.

It's official. No fee.

They'll probably try to get you some other way, but it worked out this time.

[classicman]

TD bank has stopped allowing customers to withdraw money for free at any other ATM's. To use your debit card and receive cash, you must go to their branch.
I'm done. I found a CU that I can join and will be doing so very soon.

[BigV]

ha! ya beat me to it.

so, to me, the moral of the story is if you *tell people* what the costs of a particular service are, they can make informed decisions. And the business can make subsequent decisions about the costs of the same service. This is how markets work best, not free, not laisez-faire, but mixed markets. Markets that have some sensible regulation, in this case, a requirement for disclosure of the fees.

Is there anyone here that holds the opinion that BofA is suffering because of this arc of events? Certainly they'll have to look further and harder for a replacement for the reduction of revenue from the results of these events. But is there anyone who would contend that the consumers were harmed by these events? That anyone could not get the banking / money services they need because of these regulations?

I don't think so. And I think the real but relatively tiny harm suffered by BofA is insignificant compared to the benefits to their customer base. Indeed to the customers of other financial service institutions who will also heard what the market has spoken.

Good!

[classicman]

How much of these banks revenue is drawn from these accounts versus home, car, business loans?
I was under the impression the loans were where they made more money.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

How's that "Hopey Changey Thing" working out for you all? Any new jobs out there?

Yes, the CU's are putting on more staff for the HCT.

Merc, will we see you there on Saturday ?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Merc, will we see you there on Saturday ?

Not a freaking chance!

[ZenGum]

So, while everyone is arguing about five bucks here and there, it seems B of A is positioning to pillage the treasury. Again. Or maybe not. I'm not absolutely sure.

This article from Bloomberg describes the situation quite dryly - disagrement bewteen different regulators about B of A transferring huge amounts of derivatives (you know, the highly volatile toys financiers love to play with) from the investment bank to the retail bank.

But I learned of that from this article from "The daily bail" (partisan, one sided, but not necesarily false). Their interpretation:

This story from Bloomberg just hit the wires this morning. Bank of America is shifting derivatives in its Merrill investment banking unit to its depository arm, which has access to the Fed discount window and is protected by the FDIC.

This means that the investment bank's European derivatives exposure is now backstopped by U.S. taxpayers. Bank of America didn't get regulatory approval to do this, they just did it at the request of frightened counterparties. Now the Fed and the FDIC are fighting as to whether this was sound. The Fed wants to "give relief" to the bank holding company, which is under heavy pressure.

This is a direct transfer of risk to the taxpayer done by the bank without approval by regulators and without public input. You will also read below that JP Morgan is apparently doing the same thing with $79 trillion of notional derivatives guaranteed by the FDIC and Federal Reserve.

What this means for you is that when Europe finally implodes and banks fail, U.S. taxpayers will hold the bag for trillions in CDS insurance contracts sold by Bank of America and JP Morgan. Even worse, the total exposure is unknown because Wall Street successfully lobbied during Dodd-Frank passage so that no central exchange would exist keeping track of net derivative exposure.

This is a recipe for Armageddon. Bernanke is absolutely insane. No wonder Geithner has been hopping all over Europe begging and cajoling leaders to put together a massive bailout of troubled banks. His worst nightmare is Eurozone bank defaults leading to the collapse of the large U.S. banks who have been happily selling default insurance on European banks since the crisis began.

Even Bloomberg is not positive about this.

I don't properly understand all this, but it seems the banks are attempting another round of privatise-the-profit, socialise-the-loss; on a much larger scale than last time. This is in the several tens of trillions of dollars range.

Suppose BofA announces, hey Washington, pony up three trillion or everyone loses their savings....

This was the whole point of the Glass-Stegal act (The American Banking act of 1933) - to separate retail banks from riskier invetment banks to prevent 1929-33 style crashes. That act was repealed in '99, disaster rapidly followed. The system was band-aided, but now the banks are trying to game the system.


What was that someone was saying about credit unions?

[classicman]

That makes the news that TD Bank is now charging a $9 savings account fee almost meaningless.

CNNMoney reports the charge isn't outrageous because Wells Fargo and Bank of America also charge similar fees. The bank says the fee is necessary because an abundance of transactions begin to cost it money. The bank is also hiking other fees, including raising wire transfer costs from $10 to $15, certified checks from $4 to $8, money orders from $4 to $5 and stop-payment fees from $25 to $30.

Starting in December, TD Bank (TD) savings account customers who exceed six transactions in a billing cycle will pay a $9 fee each time they take money out of their account. Transactions include online transfers from their savings account to other accounts, as well as phone and debit card withdrawals.

Citing a federal rule known as Regulation D, which limits the number of transactions customers can make from their savings accounts to six, other banks including Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500) and Wells Fargo (WFC, Fortune 500) already have similar fees in place.

According to the regulation, after six savings account transactions it begins to costs the banks money. So TD Bank says it will begin charging customers instead of eating the cost itself, a spokeswoman said.

CNN

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by classicman

That makes the news that TD Bank is now charging a $9 savings account fee almost meaningless.
CNN

What is the full name of TD Bank ? The website is non-disclosure

Oh, a reminder.
Saturday is "Bank Transfer Day" at your local credit union.
Merc sends his regrets he will not be attending... he will be missed.

[tw]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

So, while everyone is arguing about five bucks here and there, it seems B of A is positioning to pillage the treasury.

It is a plan right out of the cigarette industry playbook. When state taxes on cigarettes increased (due to inflation), the cigarette industry would also increase their profit margin significantly. State taxes rose so little that the actual tax (with inflation) was decreasing. But cigarette profit margins eventually exceeded 50%.

To put that into perspective, Wal-Mart's profit margins are closer to 2%.

Now that 'evil' government has required more sensible fees on debit cards, then raising all other banking fees can be blamed on that 'evil' government. Cigarette industry played the exact same game. And most people foolishly thought higher cigarette prices were due to state taxes.

Banking industry has a long history of stifling innovation while reaping massive profits? Productive industries do not increase costs when always innovating. Remember what they teach banking executives in business schools. Only profits are important. The product be damned.

Bank of America is quite profitable in all sectors except one. The one that Ken Lewis spent $billions on without doing any due consideration. His ego was proof that the expense was justified. He bought Countrywide Financial for $4billion. Due to that expense and much more $billions in bad loans, BoA must screw everyone else rather than admit a grossly overpaid executive is the reason for this next decade of losses.

Lewis did exactly what is taught in the business schools and advocated on Wall Street. Since so many banks are so ill managed, fees must be charged to you. As Obama said before he took office, we will be paying for the next decade what was openly advocated on Wall Street and in Washington in the 2000s. I believe we call that Mission Accomplished.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

What is the full name of TD Bank ?

TD Bank, NA (formally Commerce Bank and Portland Savings) is somehow related to TD Ameritrade (the discount broker) and TD Waterhouse.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by classic

That makes the news that TD Bank is now charging a $9 savings account fee almost meaningless.

Here are the facts on Reg D:

1. What is Regulation D?
Federal Regulation D places a monthly limit on the number of transfers you may make from your Savings Accounts or Money Market Accounts (MMAs) without your physical presence being required. Transfers affected by this regulation therefore include:

Transfers made using Online Banking
Transfers made using Telephone Banking
Overdraft transfers (made automatically to cover insufficient funds in other accounts; see below)
Transfers made by a Member Service Representative on your behalf
Pre-authorized, automatic, scheduled or recurring transfers (see below)

You are allowed six such transfers per month, per account.

You may make any number of other transfers IN PERSON without incurring a penalty imposed by the government. Of course, some banks charge you to see a teller, which I consider evil. Hie thee to the nearest Credit Union POST HASTE.

I have sometimes bumped up against this Reg D. I have sometimes had the fee waived. The fee does NOT apply to checking accounts, but only to savings and money market accounts. The intention, to my mind, is to discourage using the interest bearing accounts like checking accounts.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by tw

TD Bank, NA (formally Commerce Bank and Portland Savings) is somehow related to TD Ameritrade (the discount broker) and TD Waterhouse.

So I can use any name I want for TD...

Tweedle Dum
Tweedle Dee
Tottering Drunk
Toronto Dominion

[classicman]

TD Bank = Toronto-Dominion Bank

[Lamplighter]

Yes Classic, I found it via tw's post.
Check out my link on TD Bank.