I almost to the point....

[Griff]

You're on the team brother. Its more obvious from the outside.

[Spexxvet]

I see republicans as "everybody is on their own, and I'll get what's best for me any way I can".

I see Democrats as "We're a community, and I'm willing to give as well as take".

[henry quirk]

The problem, of course, with such a high-minded notion is that always, always, always, what any particular body gives or takes is decided by 'someone else' with little to no regard given to what that body 'wants' or actually 'needs'.

You want me, for example, to pay for the 'benefits' I supposedly receive from living in a 'society'? Fine: send me a bill for the specific benefits I've gotten.

What? It's not possible to isolate my particular use of 'public service' and bill me accordingly? Certainly seems like the Electric Company, the Water Company, the Garbage Service, and any number of other private service providers, have no such problem determining exactly what I owe them for any specific service.

And: each of those service providers offers mechanisms for settling disputes between company and customer (try disputing your 'bill' with the IRS sometime... )

My point: 'government' is supposed to be about service and proxies, not directives and governors....what an individual pays should be tied intimately to services rendered to 'that' individual, not as generalized tribute in support of *communitarian agenda.









*the republicans are much a communitarian bunch as the democrats...apart from what representatives of each party 'say', the two parties are EXACTLY the same.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

The problem, of course, with such a high-minded notion is that always, always, always, what any particular body gives or takes is decided by 'someone else' with little to no regard given to what that body 'wants' or actually 'needs'.

You want me, for example, to pay for the 'benefits' I supposedly receive from living in a 'society'? Fine: send me a bill for the specific benefits I've gotten.

What? It's not possible to isolate my particular use of 'public service' and bill me accordingly? Certainly seems like the Electric Company, the Water Company, the Garbage Service, and any number of other private service providers, have no such problem determining exactly what I owe them for any specific service.

And: each of those service providers offers mechanisms for settling disputes between company and customer (try disputing your 'bill' with the IRS sometime... )

My point: 'government' is supposed to be about service and proxies, not directives and governors....what an individual pays should be tied intimately to services rendered to 'that' individual, not as generalized tribute in support of *communitarian agenda.


*the republicans are much a communitarian bunch as the democrats...apart from what representatives of each party 'say', the two parties are EXACTLY the same.

That's all very selfish of you.

I live in The Commonwealth Of Pennsylvania. It's part of The United States Of America.

[henry quirk]

"That's all very selfish of you."

No: it's called 'self-interest' and 'self-determination'.

#

"I live in The Commonwealth Of Pennsylvania. It's part of The United States Of America."

And I live on Earth where nearly seven billion individuals compete to live.

"The Commonwealth Of Pennsylvania" and "The United States Of America" are, to me, placeholders applied to fictions foisted up to keep folks like yourself 'in-line' and 'quiet' (domesticated).

Neither is 'real'.

Certainly the indignities promoted in service of the two (and any other 'we') are 'real', but your 'commonwealth', your 'union': ghost whispers and angel farts.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

"That's all very selfish of you."

No: it's called 'self-interest' and 'self-determination'.

"Selfish", "self-interest", "self-determination" - doesn't matter. It's all about you.

Originally Posted by henry quirk

Neither is 'real'.

Certainly the indignities promoted in service of the two (and any other 'we') are 'real', but your 'commonwealth', your 'union': ghost whispers and angel farts.

How about "family"? Just because you came out of someone's vagina, or the same vagina as someone else, or someone came out of your vagina doesn't mean you have to give them a break in global competition, does it? "Family" isn't real, is it?

[henry quirk]

"It's all about you."

Yep. Just as, from your standpoint, it's all about 'you' (your morality, your ethic, your notion of what is 'good' and 'true' and 'just'), making you as self-interested/selfish as me.

#

"How about "family"?'

Fuck 'em. There are huge segments of my extended family I despise (the feeling is, of course, mutual)...they get nothing...not a 'break': nothing...hell, I wouldn't piss on any of them to put them out if any were on fire.

I extend 'breaks' to those I love.

*shrug*

But, of course, all this hooey about 'breaks' and 'family' and whatnot has nothing at all to do with "We're a community, and I'm willing to give as well as take" unless you wanna conflate 'family' ('the family of man'...another grand crock of shit) with 'community'.

Apples and oranges...

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

"It's all about you."

Yep. Just as, from your standpoint, it's all about 'you' (your morality, your ethic, your notion of what is 'good' and 'true' and 'just'), making you as self-interested/selfish as me.

As a Liberal, I'm tolerant and permissive (or so the stereotype goes). I'm pro choice, etc, yada, blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by henry quirk

I extend 'breaks' to those I love.

You think love is real? Ha!

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I see republicans as "everybody is on their own, and I'll get what's best for me any way I can".

I see Democrats as "We're a community, and I'm willing to give as well as take".

>>>

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by classicman

>>>

Wow, that is deeeeeeep. I can even begin to respond to all the substance in your post. Thank you for taking the time to post such a thoughtful comment. You've added so much to the dialogue.

[classicman]

Yep - bout as much as your D=good R=bad post.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by classicman

Yep - bout as much as your D=good R=bad post.

I stated my perception. If you view D as good and R as bad, so be it. Henry seemed to agree with my assessment as felt that Rs were good for that very reason.

Do you dispute that my assessment is accurate?

[classicman]

Its as accurate as one wants it to be.

[Spexxvet]

More depth. Thanks for playing.

[classicman]

Spare me - Your D= / R= is as valid as
D = someone else take care of it.
R = Take care of it myself.