Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Not insane -- just a classic response in politics. Nothing new, here.

So by the posting of this picture does that mean that you equate opposition to the current healthcare policy reform is due to racism?

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

So by the posting of this picture does that mean that you equate opposition to the current healthcare policy reform is due to racism?

Nope. Interesting that you would read that out of it, though. Just pointing out that the old scare tactic practice of bringing up the political boogeyman is still alive and well. That we give these nutjobs a voice in the news, however, is new. Commies! Brownshirts! Nazis! Keep your innocent child out of school and away from this evil!

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Nope. Interesting that you would read that out of it, though. Just pointing out that the old scare tactic practice of bringing up the political boogeyman is still alive and well. That we give these nutjobs a voice in the news, however, is new. Commies! Brownshirts! Nazis! Keep your innocent child out of school and away from this evil!

I was just curious because I have heard 3 or 4 black commentators say that very thing, opposition to the reform was due to nothing more than racial issues. But on the note of scare tactics, they are being used by both sides of the issue, one to encourage support, the other in opposition.

[TheMercenary]

WOW Radar, I thought you would be a little more original than become a mouth piece for David Axlerod. At least you could have referenced it as not being your own.

That is straight from the mouth of the White House.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x6296060

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

WOW Radar, I thought you would be a little more original than become a mouth piece for David Axlerod. At least you could have referenced it as not being your own.

That is straight from the mouth of the White House.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x6296060

Yes, it is straight from the White House, which gives it more credibility than any of the lies, propaganda, stupidity, and smear campaigns by the Republican Party or the corrupt insurance companies who are funding them. The White House has more credibility than blithering idiots and pathological liars like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Lou Dobbs, etc.

I don't need to reference the post. These are widely known and indisputable facts, and I assumed if you weren't totally retarded, you'd know where it came from.

Nowhere did I take credit for the information. I merely said that they were facts and myths pertaining to the forthcoming health care reforms and I thought it obvious that I was pasting something. But if it makes you feel better, here's the sources.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-ins...er-protections


http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/

[DanaC]

As opposed to straight from your arse?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

As opposed to straight from your arse?

I reference what I post. If I have not please show me where and I will correct it. I certainly have not posted something that someone else wrote as propaganda and said it was my own. I think that is dishonest.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I reference what I post. If I have not please show me where and I will correct it. I certainly have not posted something that someone else wrote as propaganda and said it was my own. I think that is dishonest.

Sorry, you're quite right. I should have said straight from somebody else's arse :P

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Sorry, you're quite right. I should have said straight from somebody else's arse :P

sure.

[Radar]

Well to be honest Kitsune, we aren't likely to get free markets in America any time soon. More and more people are having more and more of their money stolen from them, and companies who want loyalty from employees are offering none in return.

Well over 80% of what the American government takes part in or legislates over is in blatant disregard and direct violation of the U.S. Constitution.

I'd rather not be robbed at all. I'd rather we had free markets entirely. But as long as I'm going to be robbed anyway, I'd rather the money stolen from me be spent on something that improves the lives of Americans like hospitals, beds, medicine, and doctors than bombs, fighter jets, missiles, and tanks for an unconstitutional war of aggression that doesn't help or defend any Americans like those in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The insurance companies don't act in good faith, because we don't have free markets. We have a system of mercantilism where businesses are buying the influence of elected officials openly and where those people put the needs and desires of the highest payer above those of the American people. Legislation and regulations are made to prevent new businesses from starting up to compete with politically influential ones.

Since it's less likely that I'll stop getting robbed to pay for unconstitutional government programs I don't like, I may as well push to have the money that will be stolen from me anyway, to have something that doesn't suck or kill people.

Nobody can deny that the quality of care in the UK, France, or Canada is superior to the care received in America even when you have great insurance, and these places pay a fraction of what Americans pay.

I used to buy into the often spread lies about "socialized medicine" and how people in Canada were coming to America for medical procedures. When I looked further into it and actually went to the UK and Canada, I found that they weren't waiting in line for medical care like Russians waited for bread, they weren't getting substandard care, they weren't being turned down for care based on age, etc.

The few Canadians who do seek medical care in America are most often coming here for elective surgeries like boob jobs, laser eye surgery, lap band surgery, etc. and not medically necessary operations.

For every Canadian who seeks medical care or medicines from America there are a hundred or more Americans seeking medical care or medicines from Canada.


It's hard to argue with what has a proven track record, and any system that leaves millions of people without health care and some people dying in the streets because they can't afford care is a flawed one. Any system where your coverage can be jerked out from under you when you need it the most is a flawed one. Any system where you can be dropped because you forgot to tell your insurance company you had your tonsils out when you were 9 years old is a flawed one. Any system where you can lose your health care coverage that you've paid for in good faith simply because you got sick is a flawed one. Any system where people lose their homes or businesses and go bankrupt because they can't afford medical care, is a flawed one.


Are there flaws in single-payer health care systems like the UK? Yes, but they are minuscule in comparison.


I'd have less of a problem with a profit motive being attached to health care if Americans weren't already being robbed to pay for things they don't want or need, and insurance companies weren't being given a license to cheat and steal from Americans who are in need of medical care and who have paid for it in good faith. But until that day happens, I'll stick with what costs the least and works the best.

[TheMercenary]

This is a good summary of the problems we face with the current approach.

That’s the premise behind today’s incremental approach to health-care reform. Though details of the legislation are still being negotiated, its principles are a reprise of previous reforms—addressing access to health care by expanding government aid to those without adequate insurance, while attempting to control rising costs through centrally administered initiatives. Some of the ideas now on the table may well be sensible in the context of our current system. But fundamentally, the “comprehensive” reform being contemplated merely cements in place the current system—insurance-based, employment-centered, administratively complex. It addresses the underlying causes of our health-care crisis only obliquely, if at all; indeed, by extending the current system to more people, it will likely increase the ultimate cost of true reform.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care

[Radar]

True reform of course being a single-payer system that eliminates insurance companies from health care all together.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

True reform of course being a single-payer system that eliminates insurance companies from health care all together.

I can't completely agree or disagree with this statement. The problem is so much more complex and convoluted.

[DanaC]

So best to just all carp from the sidelines and do all we can to prevent any actual change from happening or gaining support then eh?

[TheMercenary]

No. What is best to do is follow every step along the way and make sure that you are not handed a plate of shit and exepect that any one party is looking out for your best interests. YOU should know that and accept that more than anyone on this forum.