OMG! It's the Fiscal Cliff!

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

So is this last bit the real answer to my questions ?

Who knows? It always goes back to the Tea Party faction. Why did all those people in Jonestown drink the kool-aide? Ask Grover Norquist.

@Glatt - Thank you for your clearly worded explanation!

@HM - My speakers have wonked out on me, so I can't listen to the video. Your Dad looks pretty cool though. Your folks aren't divorced by any chance?

[glatt]

I found a site with maps that reflect who would be hurt if various deductions would be eliminated.

Here's a map of mortgage interest rate deductions. It shows the percentage of tax returns that used this deduction in each state. It seems to correspond pretty closely to states that went to Obama. There are obviously some exceptions like Utah, but the South matches the election map pretty well.

[glatt]

Here's total itemized deductions by state.

Fascinating. No wonder the Republicans are pushing this.

[glatt]

And of course, here is the 2012 electoral map to refresh your memory.

[piercehawkeye45]

Thank you.

[Spexxvet]

I'm ready to go off the cliff. I know that I'll pay more, but I think it's important to reduce the national debt. For the last 4 years, there has been action on only one side: cuts. Now it's time for shared pain. Defense, you cost too much. FICA should be paid on all income, including capital gains income. Over $3 million per year income should be taxes at 50%. SS and Medicare should not be available to those who have income of greater than $300k per year, or maybe to those whose net worth is greater than $1 million. Retirement should be raised to 70 (it's the new 50!). Increase tariffs, penalize non-US owners/companies. I could go on ...

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by SamIam

@HM - My speakers have wonked out on me, so I can't listen to the video. Your Dad looks pretty cool though. Your folks aren't divorced by any chance?

Sorry, happily married.

[BigV]

I heard another reason in favor of "stepping gently off the fiscal curb" or whatever it's being called these days.

President Obama has the highest trump hand here, and everybody knows it. No tax rate increases on filers > $250, no signature. All he has to do is wait, right? He *could* wait for a bill from the House that includes such republican blasphemy. He'd be waiting a long time though. By waiting until the new year, the republicans get to save face by saying they nevereverevernever voted for a tax increase. They get to save face. I think this has a lot of substance because there's not a lot of substance to the arithmetic found in their counteroffers.

President Obama's doing them a favor. They know that the higher marginal tax rates will be accepted by "the rich". They know it won't be the end of the world as they imagine it and talk about it. This way, they get to continue to appear stalwart, while permitting something good for the country to occur.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Sorry, happily married.

best bad news I've heard all day.

[Griff]

There is talk of taxing employer paid insurance plans as income. That'd be pretty brutal for the middle class, I'd think. Seems like a step toward National Health Care but taking the most painful route possible to get there.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Sorry, happily married.

Drat! Why does it always seem like the good ones are already taken?

Originally Posted by BigV

best bad news I've heard all day.

hmmm... Let's see - Washington or Washington?

Originally Posted by Griff

There is talk of taxing employer paid insurance plans as income. That'd be pretty brutal for the middle class, I'd think. Seems like a step toward National Health Care but taking the most painful route possible to get there.

That idea has been out on the table for a few years now. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities called the employer tax exclusion “The largest single subsidy in the tax code” in a paper they put out in 2009.

The exclusion of employer-provided health insurance from taxable income is considered a “tax expenditure” or “tax subsidy” because it is an exception to the usual rule that all compensation is counted as taxable income. In fact, the employer tax exclusion is the largest single subsidy in the tax code. [1] According to the Joint Committee on Taxation, it reduced federal tax collections by $246 billion in 2007 — $145 billion in income taxes and $101 billion in payroll taxes.

~snip~ Although the tax exclusion provides a big boost to employer-sponsored health coverage, it is poorly targeted. It gives the greatest benefit to those with the highest incomes, although they are the group that least needs help paying for health insurance. The 24 per¬cent of tax units with incomes over $75,000 in 2004 received almost half of the benefits of the exclusion, while the 27 per¬cent of tax units with incomes under $20,000 received just 6 percent of the benefits.

[tw]

I don't get it. Everyone keeps talking about a fiscal cliff. Obvously the entire problem is mental.

[ZenGum]

An overhyped alarmist soundbite is pretty much par for the course, these days.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by SamIam

That idea has been out on the table for a few years now. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities called the employer tax exclusion “The largest single subsidy in the tax code” in a paper they put out in 2009.

This is where left and right use different language and think about things very differently. To those of us on the right a subsidy is when you get something not when the Feds fail to take something.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by BigV

By waiting until the new year, the republicans get to save face by saying they nevereverevernever voted for a tax increase. They get to save face. I think this has a lot of substance because there's not a lot of substance to the arithmetic found in their counteroffers.

President Obama's doing them a favor. They know that the higher marginal tax rates will be accepted by "the rich". They know it won't be the end of the world as they imagine it and talk about it. This way, they get to continue to appear stalwart, while permitting something good for the country to occur.

But they will lose the entire middle class vote. The Democrats want to protect the middle class from a tax increase. When the republicans allow middle income taxes to increase, the middle class WILL hold it against them.