is America the new Rman Empire? - Page 5

Undertoad · 01-07-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

To protect themselves from the 'yellow hoard'

*cough*EastTimor*cough*

Aliantha · 01-07-2007, 08:44 PM

East Timor. A new nation which had been invaded by Indonesia and was screaming for liberation. Australia, along with other UN forces entered the country and halted the civil war and Indonesia's influence was removed from the country.

Australia still has a military presence there after the recent elections. In fact, my cousin will be heading there very shortly with his unit.

Australia has no sovereignty there.

What's your point UT? There are many other points around our borders where Indonesia and the rest of Asia is closer.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-07-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I wonder where the planters came from? I'm sure they would have benefited from an army coming in to protect them from the 'restless natives' huh?

Who benefits from the US entering these areas? What does the US do with these islands it 'anexes'?

Put lots of big guns on them mostly. Why? To protect themselves from the 'yellow hoard'!

Go back and read for comprehension, you've got it exactly ass backwards.

Aliantha · 01-07-2007, 09:30 PM

I was refering to China

xoxoxoBruce · 01-07-2007, 09:49 PM

"I wonder where the planters came from? I'm sure they would have benefited from an army coming in to protect them from the 'restless natives' huh?"

China?

"Who benefits from the US entering these areas? What does the US do with these islands it 'anexes'?"

Go back and read for comprehension.

"Put lots of big guns on them mostly. Why? To protect themselves from the 'yellow hoard'!"

The biggest gun in the world, mounted on Hawaii, would hit Hawaii.

Aliantha · 01-07-2007, 09:53 PM

Bruce, if you choose to ignore the reasons the US was happy to go sort out the squabbles of these pacific islanders then enjoy your ignorance.

You'd be better off acknowledging the fact that the US has been and still is empire building, which is the point of this thread and the point I was demonstrating.

Aliantha · 01-07-2007, 09:54 PM

Oh, and as to the big guns. They're airborne. I would have thought that would go without saying.

Undertoad · 01-07-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Australia still has a military presence there after the recent elections. In fact, my cousin will be heading there very shortly with his unit.

Sounds like Mission Accomplished to me.

What's in East Timor that makes it in Australia's interests to endanger her sons and daughters?

Now the key question: did East Timor ask you to get out?

America has left every country that asked it to.

Aliantha · 01-07-2007, 10:26 PM

It's not too hard to know what Australia is getting out of it. Our government is no more altruistic than yours.

There's natural gas under their ocean which they don't have the resources to exploit. Australia does, so for providing an army, Australia has a lease on the rights.

I imagine once the gas is gone, so will Australia be gone although I believe it's a fairly large resource, so it might take a while.

Undertoad · 01-07-2007, 10:28 PM

Shameful. No War For Natgas!

Aliantha · 01-07-2007, 10:29 PM

I agree

Aliantha · 01-07-2007, 10:31 PM

It would have been more humane to set them up and take a debt or tax so that they could build their own economy. There are many things that could have been done differently, and the government is under pressure to address them, so things may change if things in the region settle down.

Undertoad · 01-07-2007, 10:32 PM

So are you going to clean up your own house, or are you going to fling around accusations of empire at everyone else, under any ridiculous flimsy pretense you can find, feeling smug and self-satisfied about it?

wolf · 01-07-2007, 10:34 PM

Aussies are descended from a bunch of criminals and losers that were run out of England on a rail that didn't manage to throw off the Imperial yoke like we did.

It's jealousy, pure and simple.

Aliantha · 01-07-2007, 10:37 PM

I never said I was feeling smug or self satisfied UT. I'm simply responding to the thread, and the fact is, to all intents and purposes, the US is the new empire - roman or any other kind. You could just as easily suggest the US is the new British Empire.

The fact is, there will always be one more powerful nation which builds it empire on that strength, and just as all the others have done before, the glory days will end. I don't believe any empire in history has been an empire for the good of the countries they absorb or anex or settle. There's always been something in it for them. That's what empire building is for.

Of course there are often benefits for the 'new' members of that empire, but history suggests that the benefits are usually outweighed by the losses of culture suffered due to the nature of empire building.

Then again, that depends whose perspective you're viewing it from. Some do not value culture as highly as others.

01-07-2007, 08:44 PM	#62
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	East Timor. A new nation which had been invaded by Indonesia and was screaming for liberation. Australia, along with other UN forces entered the country and halted the civil war and Indonesia's influence was removed from the country. Australia still has a military presence there after the recent elections. In fact, my cousin will be heading there very shortly with his unit. Australia has no sovereignty there. What's your point UT? There are many other points around our borders where Indonesia and the rest of Asia is closer. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-07-2007, 09:30 PM	#64
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I was refering to China __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-07-2007, 09:49 PM	#65
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	"I wonder where the planters came from? I'm sure they would have benefited from an army coming in to protect them from the 'restless natives' huh?" China? "Who benefits from the US entering these areas? What does the US do with these islands it 'anexes'?" Go back and read for comprehension. "Put lots of big guns on them mostly. Why? To protect themselves from the 'yellow hoard'!" The biggest gun in the world, mounted on Hawaii, would hit Hawaii. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-07-2007, 09:53 PM	#66
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Bruce, if you choose to ignore the reasons the US was happy to go sort out the squabbles of these pacific islanders then enjoy your ignorance. You'd be better off acknowledging the fact that the US has been and still is empire building, which is the point of this thread and the point I was demonstrating. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-07-2007, 09:54 PM	#67
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Oh, and as to the big guns. They're airborne. I would have thought that would go without saying. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-07-2007, 10:26 PM	#69
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	It's not too hard to know what Australia is getting out of it. Our government is no more altruistic than yours. There's natural gas under their ocean which they don't have the resources to exploit. Australia does, so for providing an army, Australia has a lease on the rights. I imagine once the gas is gone, so will Australia be gone although I believe it's a fairly large resource, so it might take a while. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-07-2007, 10:28 PM	#70
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Shameful. No War For Natgas!

01-07-2007, 10:29 PM	#71
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I agree __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-07-2007, 10:31 PM	#72
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	It would have been more humane to set them up and take a debt or tax so that they could build their own economy. There are many things that could have been done differently, and the government is under pressure to address them, so things may change if things in the region settle down. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-07-2007, 10:32 PM	#73
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	So are you going to clean up your own house, or are you going to fling around accusations of empire at everyone else, under any ridiculous flimsy pretense you can find, feeling smug and self-satisfied about it?

01-07-2007, 10:34 PM	#74
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Aussies are descended from a bunch of criminals and losers that were run out of England on a rail that didn't manage to throw off the Imperial yoke like we did. It's jealousy, pure and simple. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

01-07-2007, 10:37 PM	#75
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I never said I was feeling smug or self satisfied UT. I'm simply responding to the thread, and the fact is, to all intents and purposes, the US is the new empire - roman or any other kind. You could just as easily suggest the US is the new British Empire. The fact is, there will always be one more powerful nation which builds it empire on that strength, and just as all the others have done before, the glory days will end. I don't believe any empire in history has been an empire for the good of the countries they absorb or anex or settle. There's always been something in it for them. That's what empire building is for. Of course there are often benefits for the 'new' members of that empire, but history suggests that the benefits are usually outweighed by the losses of culture suffered due to the nature of empire building. Then again, that depends whose perspective you're viewing it from. Some do not value culture as highly as others. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)