Bridge Collapse - Page 5

TheMercenary · 08-05-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

DanaC - I don't imply insults. If I was insulting you, then it would be clear how bad I thought your cunt smells. Did I insult your cunt?

warch · 08-05-2007, 02:16 PM

From something I read/heard the piers have been ruled out, and the focus is on the steel truss. The thing shifted on the south side, dropped straight in the middle then snapped a break on the north side (the tall peak)

Money was not an issue. There was money available if deemed immediately needed. I'm sure closure of this major artery also featured in the decision. They didn't choose to add the reinforcing plates (a more expensive fix) they say, for a few reasons, not because of money, but because there was no assurance that the new holes they would drill wouldn't cause more harm than good.

I've seen some effects of the chemical deicer. It is definitely corrosive...

5 dead, over 100 injured, and 8 confirmed missing/near site. That's pretty amazing.

ps. cunt seems a bit affect-laden, from my interpretation.

Griff · 08-05-2007, 02:27 PM

Pete's company has done a lot of work on automated railroad inspection. I wonder if their methods for finding metal fatigue are adaptable and sophisticated enough to be of value?

xoxoxoBruce · 08-05-2007, 03:16 PM

An example of rusting rebar can be seen where they are tearing up the bridge to widen I-94 for the Waukegan Toll Plaza. Notice some of the rebar hooks, that were encased in the now demolished concrete deck, are rusted enough there is no traces of concrete adhered to them. They should have a green epoxy paint coating like the straight rebar sticking up on the left.

The bottom picture shows missing concrete and rusty rebar. It's easy to assume the concrete broke off and the rebar rusted from exposure to the elements. This is not true, however. Actually, water, probably salt brine reinforced water, worked it's way down through cracks in the concrete and rusted the rebar. When iron/steel rusts it increases in volume, creates pressure like freezing ice, and blows the concrete apart. That process causes spalling of the concrete and appears like in the bottom picture.

Now think of how the steel can react when there's no concrete to protect it at all. Unlike 99% of the thousands of bridges, the big, high profile bridges (George Washington, Golden Gate) are being painted continuously. More importantly, their decks and underpinnings are being inspected and maintained constantly.

You've probably heard rumblings about the states selling the rights to large portions of the interstates to private corporations for cash. My prophesy is, then the politicians piss away the money like Cheney with a War Budget, and when a major catastrophe comes along the corporation declares bankruptcy, the high ups bail with golden parachutes and the taxpayers get the mess dropped in their laps.
At least the ones that weren't killed in the catastrophe.

piercehawkeye45 · 08-05-2007, 05:27 PM

Like Warch, I was very close to the bridge when it collapsed and it was indeed a very interesting night.

Right now I am on vacation at my friend's place and he lives right next to the "crack stacks" (warch should know) and seeing police cars come by isn't a very rare occurance so for a long time we really didn't think of anything out of the ordinay when a bunch of police cars flew by. Yet as the afternoon went on we kept seeing more and more police cars, ambulances, firetrucks, and just about every boat in the metro area going to I-35.

We finally found out what happened, with numerous phone calls from our parents to make sure we were all right, and apparently our way back to my friend's apartment from where we were eating at the time goes across a footbridge where you have a perfect view of 1-35 so we of course went that way and it was very shocking as you can see from the photos.

The footbridge we walked across was absoultely packed from people trying to see what happened, a very cool thing to see in contrary to the horrors of what just happened since that area is always empty and literally thousands of people went to different spots along that bridge.

About two hours after the collapse the phone lines jammed up so I couldn't get ahold of people and I'm sure many worried family members and friends couldn't get through either which probably scared many people. Not a good situation.

Another scary thing, I got really close to going with my friend to pick up something from his house and he went across the bridge ten minutes before it collapsed. A very scary thought.

I hope the best for everyone that has been affected by this and give my thoughts to everyone that has been affected by the deaths. A tragic day.

tw · 08-05-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

About two hours after the collapse the phone lines jammed up so I couldn't get ahold of people and I'm sure many worried family members and friends couldn't get through either which probably scared many people. Not a good situation.

Land lines and mobiles? Or just cell phones?

Urbane Guerrilla · 08-06-2007, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uisge Beatha

Since tw seems to be so emotionless, he is different and has a correspondingly different viewpoint.

Tw is not emotionless at all. Beat him in an argument sometime and you will see plenty of emotion, believe you me. And it's not a pretty sight. Speaking of emotion, I have never seen tw happy or visible in enjoyment. Since the beginning of the year, I have seen the occasional quite funny quip from him, though -- almost as if there were some New Year's resolution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uisge Beatha

tw, you may well intend no insult with anything you post, but the situation is complicated by your unique perspective. You don't seem capable of entertaining the emotional responses so common to the rest of us. Even though you imply nothing, we often infer much due to our feelings.

I am not sure if this observation is of a cause or a symptom, but one thing tw is not is a politician -- he largely does not have the people skills for it, lacking them to such a degree as to suggest not mere ignorance but some organic, inborn deficiency. There are degrees of sociopathy.

DanaC · 08-06-2007, 06:40 AM

Quote:

I am not sure if this observation is of a cause or a symptom, but one thing tw is not is a politician -- he largely does not have the people skills for it, lacking them to such a degree as to suggest not mere ignorance but some organic, inborn deficiency. There are degrees of sociopathy.

Has anyone considered the possibility that tw just doesn't post in an emotional way? (much) Maybe...maybe he's already had an emotional response to such things as the yelow bus, rapidly followed by a train of thought that seeks a wider understanding and by the time he posts here, the emotional part of the response is long since over. Or maybe he really did instantly see the wider picture...in which case, isn't it nice to know that there are people out there who are able to see the wider picture even in the face of emotional situations?

And, no people skills? How could you possibly know that? Some people don't wear their hearts on their virtual sleeve. Some people don't interract online the same way they interract in real life...some people actually require things like eye contact and tone of voice to adequately read (or care about) other people and interract accordingly.

I post on another forum (UKPolitics). I would not dream of opening up and being as much myself on that forum as I do on here. Can't put m'finger quite on why...that indefinable Cellar thang :P

You do not know his background, history or other net usage. You do not know what he's like when he isn't distanced by a keyboard and screen. None of us do, because he has chosen not to make that a part of his online persona in the Cellar. Why is that a fucking problem to you?

Emotionless? Fucking sociopathic now? Good God Almighty, he's just a bloke on a forum, Urbane, why don't you just get over yourself.

And incidentally, if you think anything you've said disqualifies tw from the world of politics then you are a fool.

yesman065 · 08-06-2007, 07:01 AM

Everyone - please let it go - this is between tw and I. I created a thread for he and I to hash it out if he is willing. Let us leave it there and keep these threads to the topic at hand. I find that it is a negative energy distracting all of us from sharing our thoughts and opinions on the thread topic and that is not my intention. I know I am a guilty, if not more, than anyone else. Please, lets leave it be.

DanaC · 08-06-2007, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Everyone - please let it go - this is between tw and I. I created a thread for he and I to hash it out if he is willing.

You're not the only one with a feud going with tw. UG and he have been clashing for as long as I recall :P Which is fine, even entertaining. But diagnoses of sociopathy? It's a bit ott.

yesman065 · 08-06-2007, 07:18 AM

I know, I know. I feel as though this has morphed into an attack upon him and that I have some culpability in that - lets just not do it here - lets talk about the issues at hand. Every thread is getting riddled with this. I've said my peace - as you were.

DanaC · 08-06-2007, 07:58 AM

You aren't culpable for what other people post :P

TheMercenary · 08-06-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Has anyone considered the possibility that tw just doesn't post in an emotional way?

No. No one does.

yesman065 · 08-06-2007, 09:09 AM

Bruce - Does that paint stay on after the concrete has been poured around the rebar? I can't really tell from the images you posted. Was that supposed to adhere to the rebar AND the concrete once it was poured or is/was that paint supposed to protect the rebar until the concrete was poured?

xoxoxoBruce · 08-06-2007, 02:55 PM

Yes, it's an epoxy paint like we use on airframes. Concrete doesn't stick to the iron work, it get it's purchase from the shape of (bumps on) the rebar.

1~When normal people see the school bus the normal reaction is, Oh, innocent children... an emotional response.
2~Then a normal person would move on to concern for the other victims.
3~The normal progression would be to then move to how and why this happened.
This sometimes happens all in one post, but more often in a progression of subsequent posts.

The problem tw has, is he doesn't acknowledge your point and add his own, or even ignore your point and add his own... he often condescendingly belittles other people for stopping at #1 or #2 and not moving on to #3 immediately.
I suspect it's because he feels his point is more important due to his superior knowledge.
It's exceedingly annoying, but he sloughs off this flaw as being unemotional, in his own condescending style, which just pisses people further.

08-05-2007, 02:27 PM	#63
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Pete's company has done a lot of work on automated railroad inspection. I wonder if their methods for finding metal fatigue are adaptable and sophisticated enough to be of value? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

08-05-2007, 03:16 PM	#64
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	more on wild speculation threadjack An example of rusting rebar can be seen where they are tearing up the bridge to widen I-94 for the Waukegan Toll Plaza. Notice some of the rebar hooks, that were encased in the now demolished concrete deck, are rusted enough there is no traces of concrete adhered to them. They should have a green epoxy paint coating like the straight rebar sticking up on the left. The bottom picture shows missing concrete and rusty rebar. It's easy to assume the concrete broke off and the rebar rusted from exposure to the elements. This is not true, however. Actually, water, probably salt brine reinforced water, worked it's way down through cracks in the concrete and rusted the rebar. When iron/steel rusts it increases in volume, creates pressure like freezing ice, and blows the concrete apart. That process causes spalling of the concrete and appears like in the bottom picture. Now think of how the steel can react when there's no concrete to protect it at all. Unlike 99% of the thousands of bridges, the big, high profile bridges (George Washington, Golden Gate) are being painted continuously. More importantly, their decks and underpinnings are being inspected and maintained constantly. You've probably heard rumblings about the states selling the rights to large portions of the interstates to private corporations for cash. My prophesy is, then the politicians piss away the money like Cheney with a War Budget, and when a major catastrophe comes along the corporation declares bankruptcy, the high ups bail with golden parachutes and the taxpayers get the mess dropped in their laps. At least the ones that weren't killed in the catastrophe. Attached Images __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-06-2007, 02:55 PM	#75
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Yes, it's an epoxy paint like we use on airframes. Concrete doesn't stick to the iron work, it get it's purchase from the shape of (bumps on) the rebar. 1~When normal people see the school bus the normal reaction is, Oh, innocent children... an emotional response. 2~Then a normal person would move on to concern for the other victims. 3~The normal progression would be to then move to how and why this happened. This sometimes happens all in one post, but more often in a progression of subsequent posts. The problem tw has, is he doesn't acknowledge your point and add his own, or even ignore your point and add his own... he often condescendingly belittles other people for stopping at #1 or #2 and not moving on to #3 immediately. I suspect it's because he feels his point is more important due to his superior knowledge. It's exceedingly annoying, but he sloughs off this flaw as being unemotional, in his own condescending style, which just pisses people further. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-05-2007, 02:16 PM	#62
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	From something I read/heard the piers have been ruled out, and the focus is on the steel truss. The thing shifted on the south side, dropped straight in the middle then snapped a break on the north side (the tall peak) Money was not an issue. There was money available if deemed immediately needed. I'm sure closure of this major artery also featured in the decision. They didn't choose to add the reinforcing plates (a more expensive fix) they say, for a few reasons, not because of money, but because there was no assurance that the new holes they would drill wouldn't cause more harm than good. I've seen some effects of the chemical deicer. It is definitely corrosive... 5 dead, over 100 injured, and 8 confirmed missing/near site. That's pretty amazing. ps. cunt seems a bit affect-laden, from my interpretation.

08-05-2007, 05:27 PM	#65
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Like Warch, I was very close to the bridge when it collapsed and it was indeed a very interesting night. Right now I am on vacation at my friend's place and he lives right next to the "crack stacks" (warch should know) and seeing police cars come by isn't a very rare occurance so for a long time we really didn't think of anything out of the ordinay when a bunch of police cars flew by. Yet as the afternoon went on we kept seeing more and more police cars, ambulances, firetrucks, and just about every boat in the metro area going to I-35. We finally found out what happened, with numerous phone calls from our parents to make sure we were all right, and apparently our way back to my friend's apartment from where we were eating at the time goes across a footbridge where you have a perfect view of 1-35 so we of course went that way and it was very shocking as you can see from the photos. The footbridge we walked across was absoultely packed from people trying to see what happened, a very cool thing to see in contrary to the horrors of what just happened since that area is always empty and literally thousands of people went to different spots along that bridge. About two hours after the collapse the phone lines jammed up so I couldn't get ahold of people and I'm sure many worried family members and friends couldn't get through either which probably scared many people. Not a good situation. Another scary thing, I got really close to going with my friend to pick up something from his house and he went across the bridge ten minutes before it collapsed. A very scary thought. I hope the best for everyone that has been affected by this and give my thoughts to everyone that has been affected by the deaths. A tragic day.

08-06-2007, 07:01 AM	#69
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Everyone - please let it go - this is between tw and I. I created a thread for he and I to hash it out if he is willing. Let us leave it there and keep these threads to the topic at hand. I find that it is a negative energy distracting all of us from sharing our thoughts and opinions on the thread topic and that is not my intention. I know I am a guilty, if not more, than anyone else. Please, lets leave it be.

08-06-2007, 07:18 AM	#71
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	I know, I know. I feel as though this has morphed into an attack upon him and that I have some culpability in that - lets just not do it here - lets talk about the issues at hand. Every thread is getting riddled with this. I've said my peace - as you were.

08-06-2007, 07:58 AM	#72
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	You aren't culpable for what other people post :P

08-06-2007, 09:09 AM	#74
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Bruce - Does that paint stay on after the concrete has been poured around the rebar? I can't really tell from the images you posted. Was that supposed to adhere to the rebar AND the concrete once it was poured or is/was that paint supposed to protect the rebar until the concrete was poured?

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