Spending for health care

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Much of the cost savings that will be passed on to consumers will result from computerizing the health care system.

Cost savings passed on to consumers? I'll believe that when I see it.

Originally Posted by Redux

Harvard researcher suggests that the $20 bill investment in health care IT is in fact a both stimulus (creating thousands of jobs) and a means to make health care more efficient and less costly.

Well for 20 BILLION, it better create tens of thousands of jobs!

Or we could keep slogging along with a health care system where 20-25% (from the Rand study) of the doctors and hospitals are bogged down with paper records or at best, localized data, rather than a broad and more efficient health care IT infrastructure.

[classicman]

One thing about computerizing all this data is that the system will probably be hacked at some point and the info manipulated, exploited or sold for profit somehow.

Originally Posted by classicman

One thing about computerizing all this data is that the system will probably be hacked at some point and the info manipulated, exploited or sold for profit somehow.

the price of progress.

Should we shut down all ATM machines and return to the days of more manual tellers in banks because of potential hacking, data exploitation?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

Cost savings passed on to consumers? I'll believe that when I see it.

It's pie in the sky feel good stuff. I work at a number of places that use computerized record making it hasn't saved patients a dime and it costs thousands to maintain and update. It does give you an occassional longer coffee break. How does the data get into the computer you ask? Oh, yea, that's right SOMEONE HAS TO TYPE IT IN. It is not always faster, in some cases it does. There are so many problems with it I could go on and on. The only people who will profit are IT guys who can interface with companies who already specialize in medical record keeping and there are hundreds of companies out there.

Technology improves efficiency in any sector in a national and global economy.

Efficiency saves money.

[TheMercenary]

I have not seen it. Not in the medical profession. One hospital I worked at introduced automated records in 1995. We spent more time fixing what it recorded than doing it. Made some slick records but that was about it.

I understand that you accept the unsubstantiated and undocumented opinion of the editorial writer and/or your own limited anecdotal experience over Rand studies or Harvard studies.

We know they are part of the vast left wing conspiracy to take over your life.

[TheMercenary]

How do you figure that. I speak as an end user of automated record keeping. It has many problems. When I start to see Obama give away money for people to purchase the programs, have them installed, and have them pay for the continual upgrades, fixes, and trouble shooting to interface the way they should, we can talk. Until then they are blowing smoke up everyones skirt.

[TheMercenary]

For some reason I don't think that Obama's plan includes giving this stuff away to Dr's, Hospitals, or other private health care facilities.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

For some reason I don't think that Obama's plan includes giving this stuff away to Dr's, Hospitals, or other private health care facilities.

I would think that is the $20 billion in the stimululs bill that I think is a good investment for short term jobs and longer term efficiencies in the health care system.

As I said....it's your experience versus numerous medical professionals with equal or more experience and expertise.

You chose the former..I chose the latter.

And as you said...time will tell.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

the price of progress.

Should we shut down all ATM machines and return to the days of more manual tellers in banks because of potential hacking, data exploitation?

devils/ Should we? There were a lot less problems and that would probably create more jobs, wouldn't it?/advocate

Originally Posted by classicman

devils/ Should we? There were a lot less problems and that would probably create more jobs, wouldn't it?/advocate

problems v convenience

bank tellers v it technicians.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

I would think that is the $20 billion in the stimululs bill that I think is a good investment for short term jobs and longer term efficiencies in the health care system.

As I said....it's your experience versus numerous medical professionals with equal or more experience and expertise.

You chose the former..I chose the latter.

And as you said...time will tell.

No, those are people who crunch numbers. Not end users. Look behind the people who push the research on electronic medial record keeping and you will find the companies who benifit from it paying for the research.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No, those are people who crunch numbers. Not end users. Look behind the people who push the research on electronic medial record keeping and you will find the companies who benifit from it paying for the research.

The Harvard guy is an end-user:

Dr. John Halamka is the chief information officer at Harvard Medical School and one of its teaching hospitals. He oversees 20,000 computers dedicated to health care.

"It requires a lot of hands on, this means you need training and education much more than hardware and software, and that means a lot of people," Halamka says.

He's helped more than 1,000 doctors in Massachusetts to go electronic, creating 20 new jobs in the process. The doctors can use computers to access patient records and order tests and drugs. And the computers can prompt them about possible diagnoses and treatments.

Using his experiences in Massachusetts, Halamka calculates that equipping hundreds of thousands of doctors with computers would create about 200,000 new jobs — positions for training health personnel and running health systems. There also would be jobs in hardware and software companies, and the growing number of Internet companies that let people keep their own records online.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=99916019

I dont take the numbers at face value, but I do take the concept at face value.