I can't believe no one else has brought this up yet, so... - Page 5

Undertoad · 02-24-2004, 03:32 PM

Found elsewhere:

"And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." Mark 10:11-12.

Anyone who opposes gay marriage on the advice of Paul, but won't support a federal amendment banning divorce, the clear intent and word of God, will burn in Hell.

Shattered Soul · 02-24-2004, 09:18 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ush_gays_dc_15

xoxoxoBruce · 02-25-2004, 06:09 AM

Ploy, appease the right by promising to support a movement that couldn't possibly come to fruition during his administration.

Undertoad · 02-25-2004, 08:15 AM

At this point your swing voter has swung, and at this point I'm an anti-Bush voter. I'm no Radar, but fuck with the Constitution and you earn my contempt. Fuck with the Constitution in abhorable ways to promote your culture war or your political position, and you've gained an enemy for life in me.

This amendment won't go anywhere, and I have to suspect that it was a big mistake by the administration. They looked at support for ending gay marriage, not at support for a constitutional amendment. The country is two-thirds against gay marriage, but split about the constitution.

We will know more by the end of the week if the Pres' approval numbers change.

wolf · 02-25-2004, 12:47 PM

Because I am the Official Cellar Conspiracy Theorist ...

From what is our attention being distracted by the furor over the suggestion that there be a consitutional amendment to define marriage?

Consider also that this is all a ploy ...

Many of the online polls (I'm talking ABC, Philly Inquirer here, not newsmax.com) at least last night were running 60% against gay marriage ... so, sentiment in the country appears to be on the president's side ... making those individuals more likely to vote for him. The likelihood that such an amendment would pass, given the intricacies of the constitutional amendement process ... probably low.

Net result: Nothing obvious happens, Bush gets votes.

***

On the upside, the Senate passed the bill against nuissance lawsuits against gun manufacturers ... this, however, is likely to piss off the dems to the point they fight very hard to renew the assault weapons ban.

Elspode · 02-25-2004, 12:48 PM

You want to hear what is truly funny about all this? Rush Limbaugh is on the radio right now talking about the war on "our traditional values" by the Liberals.

Who the fuck sold this idiot all the traditions? Who are all these other people who have different traditional values, then? Are they not Americans? Is it not *their* constitution as well?

The worst thing about this is that no one, fucking NO ONE, can come up with any demonstration of actual harm being caused by two people of the same sex being married.

It is prejudice and hate, pure and simple. There's nothing moral about any of it, because no one is trying to force anything on anyone else on the so-called 'Liberal' side of this issue. No one is trying to pass an amendment requiring other people to have gay sex or take a same-sex partner.

Gay marriage deprives no one of anything, except perhaps the Right's precious sense of being the only class of people who have anything to say about everything.

I believe that this issue has just cost GW the election.

SteveDallas · 02-25-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elspode
Who are all these other people who have different traditional values, then? Are they not Americans? Is it not *their* constitution as well?

No, they're not.
No, it's not.

Quote:

I believe that this issue has just cost GW the election.

Wishful thinking.. a lot of shit will go down between now and November. It's true GWB is on a downward trend at the moment, but there's plenty of time for him to turn it around and/or the Dems to screw up.

Elspode · 02-25-2004, 01:15 PM

I dunno...I think this is *just* the sort of issue to shake a lot of us fat, lazy freedom lovers out of our sense of complacency and get out and vote our consciences.

You're right about the Dems, though...they'll hose something up but good between now and then. All politicians, by definition, suck.

tw · 02-25-2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elspode
I dunno...I think this is *just* the sort of issue to shake a lot of us fat, lazy freedom lovers out of our sense of complacency and get out and vote our consciences.

Where were these people when we passed the Patriotic Act. Then there are what we now all but acknowledge are totally innocent people held for years in Guantanamo. Even 13 year old boys and an 80 year old man are a threat so great as to be caged in locations too small for even Bronx Zoo animals. But no one noticed?

One of the greatest threats to freedom is when religion is used as a reason to attack or prosecute another. It is, for example, why religion creates so many wars and not promotes hate. Religion is a relationship only between you and your god. At any time, if religion imposes restrictions on another, then the religion is satanic. Only a satanic religion would promote hate against other people - ie gays. Even the Pope has ordered all Catholic lawmakers to impose Church doctrine into United States laws. Does not matter what religion you believe. This Pope says his doctrine should be imposed on you. That is when religion becomes the enemy of all mankind.

One of the greatest threats to freedom lovers is any religion that would impose their doctrine on all others. A religion that forgot its only purpose is a relationship between one man and his god - nothing more. Many religions are home to extremists who would even impose their religious doctrine upon you.

Happy Monkey · 02-25-2004, 01:39 PM

Yes they are, and yes it is.

I'm not as certain as Elspode, but I have to believe that there are a large number of people who oppose reckless ammendments to the Constitution, regardless of their opinion on the subject matter. I'm not sure how the ammendment could help him, since most of its supporters would probably vote for Bush anyway. Additionally, I now doubt the ammendment would pass Congress, and a defeat would further tarnish his credibility.

Kitsune · 02-25-2004, 02:05 PM

Where were these people when we passed the Patriotic Act. Then there are what we now all but acknowledge are totally innocent people held for years in Guantanamo. Even 13 year old boys and an 80 year old man are a threat so great as to be caged in locations too small for even Bronx Zoo animals. But no one noticed?

I remember a lot of people arguing against the Patriot Act. I remember even more yelling at those that raised the questions, telling them they were unpatriotic. A lot of people were lost in little plastic flags, bumper stickers, and their promise to "never forget". I'm not going to suggest that it was their intention to do so, but I can't help but shake the feeling that a lot of higher-ups took advantage of the emotions of our country following 9-11.

I do have to say this much: I think GWB is the most damaging president we've had in this country in the last thirty or more years. We're taking some large steps backwards thanks to this man and his decisions to "assist" this country, its values, and its security. To see a president supporting the mangling of one of the documents that serves as the foundation to this country is disgusting. To understand that the proposed change to that document is being made specifically to isolate a group of people under the banner of "pro-American values" is even more sickening.

But, again, the country is whipped up in a frenzy over the emotions attached to the issue. There is a group of people out there who intend to damage your family and your children. It is obvious we must amend the Constitution of the United States to prevent it.

God bless America.

BrianR · 02-25-2004, 04:09 PM

*I* sold our "traditional values" to Rush Limbaugh. I sold them for five bucks and a handful of magic beans.

I think I got the better end of the deal.

Elspode · 02-25-2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
Even the Pope has ordered all Catholic lawmakers to impose Church doctrine into United States laws. Does not matter what religion you believe. This Pope says his doctrine should be imposed on you.

Oh, great...GWB is pushing for an anti-gay amendment, and the Pope is trying to get it written into our laws that molesting young boys is acceptable. That *is* part of Church doctrine, isn't it? I mean, they've pretty much accepted it for decades. I think it only really started upsetting them when it started costing them big bucks, didn't it?

Hmm...wonder how GWB plans on lining *his* pockets over this No Gay Marriage deal...? Anyone? Buehler?? Anyone?

jinx · 02-26-2004, 10:47 AM

.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-26-2004, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Hmm...wonder how GWB plans on lining *his* pockets over this No Gay Marriage deal...?

More of that $600,000 at day will come from the moral majority (which is neither), from now on.

02-24-2004, 09:18 PM	#62
Shattered Soul Shuttered and locked Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 97	http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ush_gays_dc_15 __________________ I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad...the dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had....

02-25-2004, 06:09 AM	#63
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Ploy, appease the right by promising to support a movement that couldn't possibly come to fruition during his administration. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-25-2004, 12:47 PM	#65
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Because I am the Official Cellar Conspiracy Theorist ... From what is our attention being distracted by the furor over the suggestion that there be a consitutional amendment to define marriage? Consider also that this is all a ploy ... Many of the online polls (I'm talking ABC, Philly Inquirer here, not newsmax.com) at least last night were running 60% against gay marriage ... so, sentiment in the country appears to be on the president's side ... making those individuals more likely to vote for him. The likelihood that such an amendment would pass, given the intricacies of the constitutional amendement process ... probably low. Net result: Nothing obvious happens, Bush gets votes. *** On the upside, the Senate passed the bill against nuissance lawsuits against gun manufacturers ... this, however, is likely to piss off the dems to the point they fight very hard to renew the assault weapons ban. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

02-25-2004, 12:48 PM	#66
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	You want to hear what is truly funny about all this? Rush Limbaugh is on the radio right now talking about the war on "our traditional values" by the Liberals. Who the fuck sold this idiot all the traditions? Who are all these other people who have different traditional values, then? Are they not Americans? Is it not their constitution as well? The worst thing about this is that no one, fucking NO ONE, can come up with any demonstration of actual harm being caused by two people of the same sex being married. It is prejudice and hate, pure and simple. There's nothing moral about any of it, because no one is trying to force anything on anyone else on the so-called 'Liberal' side of this issue. No one is trying to pass an amendment requiring other people to have gay sex or take a same-sex partner. Gay marriage deprives no one of anything, except perhaps the Right's precious sense of being the only class of people who have anything to say about everything. I believe that this issue has just cost GW the election. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

02-25-2004, 01:15 PM	#68
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I dunno...I think this is just the sort of issue to shake a lot of us fat, lazy freedom lovers out of our sense of complacency and get out and vote our consciences. You're right about the Dems, though...they'll hose something up but good between now and then. All politicians, by definition, suck. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

02-24-2004, 03:32 PM	#61
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Found elsewhere: "And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." Mark 10:11-12. Anyone who opposes gay marriage on the advice of Paul, but won't support a federal amendment banning divorce, the clear intent and word of God, will burn in Hell.

02-25-2004, 08:15 AM	#64
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	At this point your swing voter has swung, and at this point I'm an anti-Bush voter. I'm no Radar, but fuck with the Constitution and you earn my contempt. Fuck with the Constitution in abhorable ways to promote your culture war or your political position, and you've gained an enemy for life in me. This amendment won't go anywhere, and I have to suspect that it was a big mistake by the administration. They looked at support for ending gay marriage, not at support for a constitutional amendment. The country is two-thirds against gay marriage, but split about the constitution. We will know more by the end of the week if the Pres' approval numbers change.

02-25-2004, 01:39 PM	#70
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Yes they are, and yes it is. I'm not as certain as Elspode, but I have to believe that there are a large number of people who oppose reckless ammendments to the Constitution, regardless of their opinion on the subject matter. I'm not sure how the ammendment could help him, since most of its supporters would probably vote for Bush anyway. Additionally, I now doubt the ammendment would pass Congress, and a defeat would further tarnish his credibility. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

02-25-2004, 02:05 PM	#71
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Where were these people when we passed the Patriotic Act. Then there are what we now all but acknowledge are totally innocent people held for years in Guantanamo. Even 13 year old boys and an 80 year old man are a threat so great as to be caged in locations too small for even Bronx Zoo animals. But no one noticed? I remember a lot of people arguing against the Patriot Act. I remember even more yelling at those that raised the questions, telling them they were unpatriotic. A lot of people were lost in little plastic flags, bumper stickers, and their promise to "never forget". I'm not going to suggest that it was their intention to do so, but I can't help but shake the feeling that a lot of higher-ups took advantage of the emotions of our country following 9-11. I do have to say this much: I think GWB is the most damaging president we've had in this country in the last thirty or more years. We're taking some large steps backwards thanks to this man and his decisions to "assist" this country, its values, and its security. To see a president supporting the mangling of one of the documents that serves as the foundation to this country is disgusting. To understand that the proposed change to that document is being made specifically to isolate a group of people under the banner of "pro-American values" is even more sickening. But, again, the country is whipped up in a frenzy over the emotions attached to the issue. There is a group of people out there who intend to damage your family and your children. It is obvious we must amend the Constitution of the United States to prevent it. God bless America.

02-25-2004, 04:09 PM	#72
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	I sold our "traditional values" to Rush Limbaugh. I sold them for five bucks and a handful of magic beans. I think I got the better end of the deal. __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

02-26-2004, 10:47 AM	#74
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	. Attached Images

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