What if I've been wrong about W? - Page 5

Silent · 03-03-2005, 02:45 PM

Might I propose that there is no black/white answer here?

I suspect some people in Lebanon were inspired by Iraq. Some were inspired by the Ukraine. Some were just pissed at the Syrians. Some were probably out looking for a good excuse to gather in large numbers and get drunk.

To try and link a historic event like this to one cause or even the events of the last year is really over simplifying things.
Did the Iraq election have some bearing on events? Probably. Would the protests have taken place if the US hadn't gone into Iraq? Who knows. It's all speculation.

hot_pastrami · 03-03-2005, 03:04 PM

I am willing to concede that some of this positive revolution is probably indirectly due to America's actions in Iraq... but I can't attribute it to Bush's imaginary competence in spreading democracy.

It's a bit like my good friend who got divorced recently... his wife cheated on him, she moved in with the guy, and then she gave my friend custody of the four kids, telling the kids that she didn't want them in her life anymore. Pretty fucked up.

As a result of this, my friend and his kids are all closer to each other than they ever were before, and only a few months later they are a much happier family unit. They have also become much closer to their extended family. Do I credit the ex-wife for making the family happier? No. It would be stupid to say her actions didn't inadvertently conribute to the change, but that doesn't justify her original intent, nor her actions. Praise would be highly misplaced.

jaguar · 03-03-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

The Lebanese had plenty of cause to do this before January 30th... but didn't. Why not?

Er....noone had assassinated a major politician who was very popular? Did he not notice a bit of a fraccas there in the 60, 70s and 80s too...

Silent · 03-03-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot_pastrami

Praise would be highly misplaced.

Oh, I see.

You're wondering whether the Bush admin. had any idea what the effect of their actions in Iraq would have on the rest of the middle east and whether they anticipated all of the positive that has come about lately.

In that case, please, do carry on.

jaguar · 03-03-2005, 03:24 PM

[quote] It's all speculation./QUOTE]
Since when has that stopped us?

Silent · 03-03-2005, 06:38 PM

True.

I just thought you boys might come to blows.

tw · 03-03-2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent

I suspect some people in Lebanon were inspired by Iraq. Some were inspired by the Ukraine. Some were just pissed at the Syrians. Some were probably out looking for a good excuse to gather in large numbers and get drunk.

However the Iraqis also could be inspired by the Lebanese and Ukrainians. There is one common theme expressed by all Iraqis of the various demoninations. They all want Americans out.

russotto · 03-04-2005, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

These are liberated arabic women! And they ROCK!

And they will be hunted down, raped, tortured, and killed the next time the pendulum swings the other way. Which is likely to be sooner rather than later. So it goes.

jaguar · 03-04-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

And they will be hunted down, raped, tortured, and killed the next time the pendulum swings the other way. Which is likely to be sooner rather than later. So it goes.

This is Lebanon, not Saudi, do some research.

mrnoodle · 03-04-2005, 12:18 PM

Watching jag and UT argue makes me horny.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-04-2005, 08:27 PM

OK, say Bush knew exactly how this was going to play out and maidens would be strewing flowers and palm fronds.
Did he have the right to kill 20k/120k people to make it happen? Did he have the right to force his mid-east vision on Iraq?

Griff · 03-04-2005, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Did he have the right to kill 20k/120k people to make it happen? Did he have the right to force his mid-east vision on Iraq?

No and No.

wolf · 03-05-2005, 03:21 PM

Just in case you were wondering, Bush is not the Antichrist.

richlevy · 03-06-2005, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Just in case you were wondering, Bush is not the Antichrist.

From the site

Quote:

Even if President Bush had his head blown off on live Televison, then rose from the dead, the world, would reject him as The Christ!!!

Actually, %49 of the United States would welcome him.

hot_pastrami · 03-07-2005, 05:34 PM

An interesting article on MSNBC looks at what the writer sees as "What Bush Got Right." I don't necessarily agree with it (I believe that Bush's motives were nefarious, his execution criminally inept, and the benefits a happy side effect which were dearly paid for), but it does make a lot of interesting points.

03-03-2005, 03:04 PM	#62
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	I am willing to concede that some of this positive revolution is probably indirectly due to America's actions in Iraq... but I can't attribute it to Bush's imaginary competence in spreading democracy. It's a bit like my good friend who got divorced recently... his wife cheated on him, she moved in with the guy, and then she gave my friend custody of the four kids, telling the kids that she didn't want them in her life anymore. Pretty fucked up. As a result of this, my friend and his kids are all closer to each other than they ever were before, and only a few months later they are a much happier family unit. They have also become much closer to their extended family. Do I credit the ex-wife for making the family happier? No. It would be stupid to say her actions didn't inadvertently conribute to the change, but that doesn't justify her original intent, nor her actions. Praise would be highly misplaced. __________________ Hot Pastrami!

03-03-2005, 03:24 PM	#65
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	[quote] It's all speculation./QUOTE] Since when has that stopped us? __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-04-2005, 12:18 PM	#70
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	Watching jag and UT argue makes me horny. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh

03-04-2005, 08:27 PM	#71
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	OK, say Bush knew exactly how this was going to play out and maidens would be strewing flowers and palm fronds. Did he have the right to kill 20k/120k people to make it happen? Did he have the right to force his mid-east vision on Iraq? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-05-2005, 03:21 PM	#73
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Just in case you were wondering, Bush is not the Antichrist. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-03-2005, 02:45 PM	#61
Silent Romanes Eunt Domus Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 702	Might I propose that there is no black/white answer here? I suspect some people in Lebanon were inspired by Iraq. Some were inspired by the Ukraine. Some were just pissed at the Syrians. Some were probably out looking for a good excuse to gather in large numbers and get drunk. To try and link a historic event like this to one cause or even the events of the last year is really over simplifying things. Did the Iraq election have some bearing on events? Probably. Would the protests have taken place if the US hadn't gone into Iraq? Who knows. It's all speculation.

03-03-2005, 06:38 PM	#66
Silent Romanes Eunt Domus Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 702	True. I just thought you boys might come to blows.

03-07-2005, 05:34 PM	#75
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	An interesting article on MSNBC looks at what the writer sees as "What Bush Got Right." I don't necessarily agree with it (I believe that Bush's motives were nefarious, his execution criminally inept, and the benefits a happy side effect which were dearly paid for), but it does make a lot of interesting points. __________________ Hot Pastrami!

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