Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by jinx

c) Merc points out that it is earned not given out for free

Which is irrelevant. sugarpop said he got government run medicine, not free medicine. And sugarpop was responding to a post that the government can't run anything.

So I guess we're going with non sequitur.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Which is irrelevant. sugarpop said he got government run medicine, not free medicine. And sugarpop was responding to a post that the government can't run anything.

So I guess we're going with non sequitur.

Are you a retard?

She was speaking to when I was on active duty, I do not receive medical care from the VA. It is not free medicine. People who get medical care in the military or from the VA get it as a condition and part of a contract they make with the military. If you would like to join up and have the same benefit after you pay your dues I am sure that someone could look into that for you, if you can make the grade. It is nothing of the sort of a non sequitur. But you are starting to make me think that you have some kind of problem understanding the difference between benefits after a contractual obligation and something that people get for nothing more than popping out some group of spawn from numerous unkown babies daddies. There is a huge difference. One group gets their care for free, one gets it after the delivery of and in the performance of a mutual contractual agreement between two parties. Get it?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Are you a retard?

She was speaking to when I was on active duty, I do not receive medical care from the VA. It is not free medicine.

So what? The issue was government run, not whether it's free or not or socialist or not. The government runs VA, which is a health care provider.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Are you a retard?

She was speaking to when I was on active duty, I do not receive medical care from the VA. It is not free medicine. People who get medical care in the military or from the VA get it as a condition and part of a contract they make with the military. If you would like to join up and have the same benefit after you pay your dues I am sure that someone could look into that for you, if you can make the grade. It is nothing of the sort of a non sequitur. But you are starting to make me think that you have some kind of problem understanding the difference between benefits after a contractual obligation and something that people get for nothing more than popping out some group of spawn from numerous unkown babies daddies. There is a huge difference. One group gets their care for free, one gets it after the delivery of and in the performance of a mutual contractual agreement between two parties. Get it?

Watch this... I BEG YOU. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...aroundamerica/

If you think the only people who need affordable health care are poor people popping out babies you are delusional. Everyone in this country, including you Merc, is a heartbeat away from losing everything they own because of some health disaster. In that program I listed, TWO CEOs of insurance companies said they would not be able to get insurance under the current system if they left their jobs. Nice. The truth is, insurance is great until you really need it. Because if something happens and you really DO need it, and you aren't lucky enough to work somewhere where you are pretty much guaranteed the very best insurance, the likelihood of your being dropped is very high, and then good luck finding another company to cover you at a rate you can afford.

For example, in that report, a couple of people had complications with pregnancy, and their bills were close to a million $$$ each. Could you afford to pay that if your insurance company decided they wouldn't pay it for some stupid reason (like you didn't report having acne or something equally unrelated to pregnancy)? Or what if you found out your kid was autistic? Because most insurance companies won't cover things like that. People are being forced to stay in jobs they don't like because they can't afford to lose their health insurance. Some people are having to get divorced or are being forced to stay in lower income jobs so they can get Medicaid for their children because they can't afford the coverage for certain illnesses, or they can't get coverage at all. WTF? And you support that?

And ftr, while I think those serving in the military deserve government health care, I do not believe they are any more special than anyone else in society. They do not deserve it simply because they are in the military. There are plenty of equally deserving people out there who can't afford insurance for one reason or another. People deserve treatment when they get cancer, or diabetes, or lupus, and they should not have to lose their homes (or DIE) in order to get it. Our health should not be a "for profit" item, like sneakers or corn or derivatives.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

So I guess we're going with non sequitur.

I guess you've got a mouse in your pocket.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Read the sequence of posts. IF The Mercenary wasn't saying that VA was good, then his post was a complete non sequitur.

a) Government can't do anything right
b) Mentions VA
a) Yeah, but people who get VA earned it

It wouldn't be the first time TheMercenary responded with a non sequitur, but I like to start out assuming that responses are actually responding to the post they quote.

I never once brought the VA into the disussion, Sugarpop did that. I responded to her post that the VA was a form of socialized medicine. I did not use it to support or refute what the current system is, or is not. The VA system is like any other huge government run system, some elements work, some do not, some are good, others are not.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I never once brought the VA into the disussion, Sugarpop did that.

Sugarpop is b) in my quote.

[Undertoad]

Turns out it's just one of those things that's counter-intuitive: Spending more on health care increases the infant mortality rate

According to a 2002 analysis by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, at least a third of all infant mortality in the United States arises from complications of prematurity; other studies assert the figure is closer to half. Thus—at the risk of oversimplifying—infant mortality in the United States principally is a problem of premature birth, which today complicates just over one in 10 pregnancies.

To reduce infant mortality, then, we need to prevent premature births, and if that fails, improve care of premature babies once born. (Prematurity is also linked to other problems; for example, it's the leading cause of mental retardation and cerebral palsy in children.) But modern medicine isn't good at preventing prematurity—just the opposite. Better and more affordable medical care actually has worsened the rate of prematurity, and likely the rate of infant mortality, by making fertility treatment widespread.

[Undertoad]

And actually, maybe lifespan is also one of those counter-intuitive things:

One big reason our life expectancy lags is that Americans have an unusual tendency to perish in homicides or accidents. We are 12 times more likely than the Japanese to be murdered and nearly twice as likely to be killed in auto wrecks.

In their 2006 book, "The Business of Health," economists Robert L. Ohsfeldt and John E. Schneider set out to determine where the U.S. would rank in life span among developed nations if homicides and accidents are factored out. Their answer? First place.

[Radar]

It's a waste of time to talk about "what if" in a book by some partisan hack. It's better to take a look at reality. The reality is murders and accidents won't go away and millions of Americans don't have health care.

With a single-payer system, we'd have less deaths that we could actually prevent without raising taxes much or at all.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Radar

It's a waste of time to talk about "what if" in a book...

...if it disagrees with you. End of discussion.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by classicman

...if it disagrees with you. End of discussion.

No. Because "what if" isn't real. It's a pipe dream. I prefer to deal with reality and think we should use what has a proven track record of success like the system in the UK.

[Undertoad]

It's important to understand the statistics, because if they only get worse under whatever system you prefer, the system you prefer will be dismantled, or changed to something you don't prefer.

[classicman]

Ohhhh, and about those illegal immigrants that aren't being covered.....

President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage.

He also staked out a position that anyone in the country legally should be covered - a major break with the 1996 welfare reform bill, which limited most federal public assistance programs only to citizens and longtime immigrants.

"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

So with a wave of his hand they become legal. The issue is less about whether you think there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant (Radar) or whether you want them all to leave or go thru the process of becoming legal. The issue is more about the deception of stating that illegals won't be covered and then just "POOF" making them all legal. This is not the openness and honesty I expected. This is simply more wordsmanship by another lying politician.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by classicman

.....
So with a wave of his hand they become legal... then just "POOF" making them all legal....

How the hell did you get that from your quote?