Mexico Is Gonna Sue Us.

[Tonchi]

:sigh: Time to speak up as the one person here who lives knee-deep and shoulder to shoulder with illegal immigrants every day of her life, talks to them constantly, knows their families, watches the Hispanic newscasts and reads the editorials out of Mexico every day. You can talk about Economics and market dynamics all you want, but what it REALLY boils down to is that every company, every farm, every bank, every media outlet, every industry and every hiring process is under the control of "the 23 Families". Not the Mafia concept, it's an oligarchy. Those 23 Families (a term explained to me by one of the Longorias, one of the more powerful units of this oligarchy) collect all the money in Mexico. They make W's version of trickle-down economics look like grade school. They set all the prices, determine the wages and who will be hired, collect all the money, and control all the ecomony as far as what is available for distribution. They own practically all the politicians, directly or indirectly, so no laws will every be passed concerning monopolies or unfair practices. They have also instigated a policy which forbids the hiring of citizens who are of other racial or national groups, even though they are born in Mexico or have received citizenship; i.e., a Mexican-Korean citizen will not be able to get a job as a policeman or firefighter, and he may not run for public office. I find this situation particularly odious because Señor SLIM, head of one of the Families, is a Lebanese immigrant; he now owns the entire communications industry of Mexico (every phone and cell phone and internet connection pays into his bank account) and most of the department stores. THIS is why there is such a horrible crisis in Mexico and why everybody is running for the border. Everything existing in the country is no longer available to 95% of the population on a legal basis. What is the only other option? Revolution. Either that or miraculously managing a change through the ballot box even though the elections are as rigged as everything else is. That is why Vicente Fox has failed his country so monumentally. He was claiming his administration could fix all that, but nothing whatever has changed as far as most Mexicans can see. We can also thank Fox for encouraging them all to leave and move up here, and he just got through making speeches here about how we have to lighten up on our immigration stance. Right now, money earned in the US and sent to relatives back in Mexico is the only thing preventing a total collapse of the Mexican economy, it is their largest source of disposable income even though it originates outside their borders and no taxes on this payroll are paid to the Mexican treasury. It's obvious why Fox does not want that flow to stop. He will not be getting anything like it from the people/families who are REALLY ruling Mexico.

[tw]

UT previously cited a good paper entitled Spotting the Losers: Seven Signs of Non-Competitive States. Symptoms of the malaise started with

Traditional indicators of noncompetitive performance still apply: corruption (the most seductive activity humans can consummate while clothed); ...

After having tried most everything in Africa with little success, the World Bank and IMF are slowly changing their opinions. Corruption is a reason for the malaise; not just a symptom. The '23 Families' example would be just another reason for inequity between Mexican and US economies. Inequities that are also suggested by a PPP disparity.

Listed as one reason for illegal immigration is US economic policies that stifle overseas job creation - 'corporate welfare' that has increased with the George Jr administration. Corruption ('23 families') would be another example. IOW instead of blaming and prosecuting Jose Mexicana (the victim), and instead of big fences and military operations; we should be identifying and addressing reasons for illegal immigration.

Curing symptoms never solves problems. Curing symptoms is the solution advocated in Washington and was also advocated by many posters earlier in this discussion.

Kudos to Tonchi. Posted is what others did not: identify another reason for an illegal immigration problem. A major difference between posts that blame Jose Mexicana as a problem; rather than view Jose Mexicana as the victim.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by tw

Kudos to Tonchi. Posted is what others did not: identify another reason for an illegal immigration problem. A major difference between posts that blame Jose Mexicana as a problem; rather than view Jose Mexicana as the victim.

Oh, OK...I get it. When I refer to the corrupt Mexican government, I'm not identifying a reason, I'm "blaming Jose Mexicana". When someone else referrs to the corrupt Mexican government, citing details, they're being insightful and courageous.

Dunno about you, tw, but I don't have to cite which capo a footpad is working for to know when I'm being mugged. Of course the illegals are victims individually are victims as well as street-0level criminals. But collectively--illegals and their south of the border exploiters-- it's their country.

The greedy capitalists north of the border are making a smaller profit exploiting the illegals they hire at the expense of legal workers. But, as Tonchi points out, the big winners aren't in the US. Follow the money...about $20 billion last year, as far as we can tell.

[Tonchi]

TW, you're driving me up the wall by writing Jose MEXICANA. Mexicana is an airline. Mexicano is what a male from the country of Mexico is called. So please write José Mexicano and María Mexicana from now on. Oh, and ICYC, the Mexicans themselves call these designated representative names "Fulano(a)" (or "Fulano de Tal" when they want to be fancy)

[MaggieL]

Well, you don't have to actually know anything about a culture you are adopting as an Official Victim. You just use them as long as is politically expediant, and then discard them...as the labor movement, blacks and gays have already discovered. Illegal aliens will eventually discover this too if the liberals have their way.

"If we make you citizens through amnesty you'll vote for us, right?"

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

You just use them as long as is politically expediant, and then discard them...as the labor movement, blacks and gays have already discovered.

Well, they may discover that if the conservatives ever stop attacking long enough for the liberals to be able to discard them. I doubt we'll ever know.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Well, they may discover that if the conservatives ever stop attacking long enough for the liberals to be able to discard them.

What a joke....being under attack from conservatives never prevented liberals from discarding an Official Victim Group when it was convenient. In fact it's usually used as the excuse....remeber "Don't Ask Don't Tell"? Not to mention DOMA.

That's one big problem with collectivism...once you're "collected" you're unecessary.

[9th Engineer]

My big question is exactly how people are going to rationalize the argument that 'we' (citizens of the US) need to fix Mexico's problems in order to solve our immigration problem. I'm not opposed to the idea, in fact in principle I think it speaks very highly of our country if we can wield our power for the benefit of others. However, we've been ousted from the position of benifactor in most cases that of a sort of perverse UN. It's <I>assumed</I> that we should go in and fix other peoples problems. Of course after we spend billions of dollars and hundreds of lives in the problem country we are sent packing with no reparations whatsoever and a warning that we had better not try anything sneaky. Frankly I think we should take an extended hiatus from our role as global bitch, and simply enforce our own rules, protect our own assets, and do a proper job of not meddling where we don't belong.

Of course this also means stopping our billions of dollars worth of 'aid' to the worlds war lords and dictators.

[Happy Monkey]

I guess that shows the conservative mindset - compromise is betrayal.

[Shocker]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I guess that shows the conservative mindset - compromise is betrayal.

I guess that shows the liberal mindset - conservatives are bad lol

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Shocker

I guess that shows the liberal mindset - conservatives are bad lol

"Bipartisanship is another name for date rape,' Norquist, a onetime adviser to former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, said, citing an axiom of House conservatives....

Conservatives press for something horrible, and liberals give them something bad.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I guess that shows the conservative mindset - compromise is betrayal.

Thanks, I'll reserve to myself judgement on when I've been betrayed.

If liberal support for DOMA and DADT are "compromise", they're awfully hard to distinguish from a careful crafted blend of betrayal, denial, hypocracy, expediency and disingenuousness.

I know the "religious" right is openly homophobic...but at least it's open. That's easer to confront and combat.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It certainly would be novel if people went to the voting booth with the intension of doing what's best for the country instead of making "me/myself/I" the center of the universe.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It certainly would be novel if people went to the voting booth with the intension of doing what's best for the country...

I certainly don't think liberalism is "what's best for the country". YMMV.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I have no doubt about that.
Is that because you pick up the paper, turn on the news or just look around, and like what the Conservatives have done for this country in the last 6 years?