Kyoto Treaty

[Ibby]

I swear I already have the lungs of a lifetime smoker.

Just from three years in Beijing.

[Aliantha]

I think we should just eat all the cows today

[xoxoxoBruce]

Since the vultures are dwindling rapidly, they have about 20,000 cattle carcases they'd gladly have to consume.

I wonder if the China numbers include the scores of underground coal fires they can't put out and are laying a path of soot across the Arctic snow?

[Hippikos]

While China's total greenhouse gas emissions were only 42 percent of the U.S. level in 2001, they had soared to an estimated 97 percent of the American level by 2006.

Well, not bad with 4 times as much inhabitants. Are you complaining that China is going to make as much greenhouse emissions as the US, doesn't that sound like pot and kettle?

And yes, Kyoto is a hoax.

[Undertoad]

I'm saying that, at the rate China's going, burning dirty coal and growing at 10% a year, they will make the rest of us look like pikers.

I'm told the worst pollution in the 1970s-80s was in eastern Europe. People who visited Poland said that the skies were gray and the river water was so foul it stank. The collectivists in China have no reason to keep their ass clean.

[Ibby]

There's a river right outside the place I used to live in Beijing that all the lao wais (fer'n'ners) named Chou He - literally, stinky river. It was about half raw sewage, a quarter chemical waste, and maaaybe, at best, a quarter actual water.

We all had to hold our breaths crossing it.

[Hippikos]

When inspecting goods I bought in NE China, I also inspected the galvanisation. The walls of the room, or better the dungeon, where this happened were completely galvanised, the operators worked there without any protection and the chemical waste was dumped directly in the little river behind the factory. Yet this company managed to obtain ISO 9001...

What this has to do with Kyoto, probably nothing...

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Yet this company managed to obtain ISO 9001...

Easy...besides the organizational crap, ISO 9001 is nothing more than, say what you do - do what you say. I'm going to dump the toxic shit in the river - I dumped the toxic shit in the river....no sweat.

[Undertoad]

If they care so little as to directly dump the shit in the river, they sure aren't gonna install scrubbers on their coal smokestacks!

[bluesdave]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

If they care so little as to directly dump the shit in the river, they sure aren't gonna install scrubbers on their coal smokestacks!

You are quite correct UT. As I pointed out once in one of our earlier discussions on Global Warming, China and India are huge producers of greenhouse gases, and neither shows any serious moves towards cleaning up their industries. We had the results from models produced by other scientists that showed alarming predictions for the World, if these countries did not act now. China and India claim that we - the West - had our chance at economic growth, and it is only fair that they have their chance now. People from my own group tried to convince Chinese authorities the insanity of what they were saying, but they are determined to press ahead, and clearly do not care what effect they have on the Earth.

I should point out that it is not just greenhouse gases. They pollute rivers, land, anything that stands in their way.

[Hippikos]

I know how easy it is to get ISO through Shanghai.

Here's completely different in the "new" ISO 9001:2000 human resources and enviroment are very important and have to be documented all the way through.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's wrong. The purpose of ISO was to guarantee your company had the capability, to complete a contract with acceptable quality, before you could place a bid. That's an admirable goal and makes it easier for companies to out source, when they are reassured the prospective supplier is qualified.

It also helps the little guy, the unknown bidder in that by being ISO qualified he can get into the game and compete against the big dogs.

But when they start adding environment and human resources it becomes political. When a good company in Alaska can't get ISO compliant because they can't find enough black and/or Puerto Ricans to make their quota, that sucks. If you think that is a preposterous example, then you're out of touch with today's corporate culture.

I should have expected it would not be practical for long before someone would start using it for social blackmail. The end justifies the means to these clowns regardless of harm. Damn them.

Individuals should not be the main issue. Every individual could reduce our carbon footprint to 0 and made exactly that impact.
Industry puts 99.999% of the greenhouse gasses into the environment. That is where the attack HAS to begin & where the radical change must be made to start.
Al Gore, a hypocrite that owns a mine, giant non-green mansions and flies around in a private jet, is just selling guilt and nothing else. There is no logic to it.
It is not "liberal", against progress (quite the opposite), or against your nation to feel that industry must be responsible for their trash.
Even if you do not believe that this has to do with Global Warming, it is what is the right thing to do and is the first step in moving toward eliminating needless pollution and removing our dependence on foreign oil and eventually on oil and coal as a fuel source.
_________________

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Individuals should not be the main issue. Every individual could reduce our carbon footprint to 0 and made exactly that impact.
Industry puts 99.999% of the greenhouse gasses into the environment. That is where the attack HAS to begin & where the radical change must be made to start.
Al Gore, a hypocrite that owns a mine, giant non-green mansions and flies around in a private jet, is just selling guilt and nothing else. There is no logic to it.
It is not "liberal", against progress (quite the opposite), or against your nation to feel that industry must be responsible for their trash.
Even if you do not believe that this has to do with Global Warming, it is what is the right thing to do and is the first step in moving toward eliminating needless pollution and removing our dependence on foreign oil and eventually on oil and coal as a fuel source.
_________________

You got that right. All gore uses the same amount of energy per month that my all electric 3000 square foot house uses in a year. Hipocrites everyone of them.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You got that right. All gore uses the same amount of energy per month that my all electric 3000 square foot house uses in a year. Hipocrites everyone of them.

I hope you caught the last part.