Smooth Running Democracies - Page 6

TheMercenary · 01-13-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Thats why people are blowing our troops up in Iraq?

Come on man, that is a really stupid narrow minded statement. You really believe we are in Iraq because of business interests and an attempt to exploit the Iraqi economy?

tw · 01-13-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Come on man, that is a really stupid narrow minded statement. You really believe we are in Iraq because of business interests and an attempt to exploit the Iraqi economy?

Explain why the largest embassy in the world is the US Embassy in Baghdad. Explain why the reasons for invading Iraq so strongly correspond to the Project for New American Century where America must protect "OUR" oil and where America must do anything necessary (including Pearl Harboring of Russia, India, or Germany) to keep the US as #1. But somehow the invasion had no basis in exploiting the Iraq economy and resources even when Iraq was a threat to no one?

Explain why we are in Iraq when Iraq was never a threat and when the smoking gun (always necessary to justify a war) does not exist? Explain the many corporations reaping massive profits with no-bid contracts (ie Haliburton) that are also closely aligned to top George Jr administration staff?

Since we created a war in Iraq for none of the Military Science 101 reasons that justify war, then why are we there? TheMercenary does not answer that question; only makes accusations. Every action to get American into war with Iraq was not justified by a 'smoking gun'. But then those who promoted the lie also defined a need to protect "OUR" oil - a political agenda.

TheMercenary · 01-13-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Explain why the largest embassy in the world is the US Embassy in Baghdad. Explain why the reasons for invading Iraq so strongly correspond to the Project for New American Century where America must protect "OUR" oil and where America must do anything necessary (including Pearl Harboring of Russia, India, or Germany) to keep the US as #1. But somehow the invasion had no basis in exploiting the Iraq economy and resources even when Iraq was a threat to no one?

Explain why we are in Iraq when Iraq was never a threat and when the smoking gun (always necessary to justify a war) does not exist? Explain the many corporations reaping massive profits with no-bid contracts (ie Haliburton) that are also closely aligned to top George Jr administration staff?

Since we created a war in Iraq for none of the Military Science 101 reasons that justify war, then why are we there?

Supportive actions of the events are not machinations planned by it. Stop with the conspiracy theory BS.

PS. You never took Military Science 101, I did.

piercehawkeye45 · 01-13-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Come on man, that is a really stupid narrow minded statement. You really believe we are in Iraq because of business interests and an attempt to exploit the Iraqi economy?

I think it would be stupid to rule it out. Also, they are attacking us more for the imperialistic part.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/09/0080197

TheMercenary · 01-15-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I think it would be stupid to rule it out. Also, they are attacking us more for the imperialistic part.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/09/0080197

I am in no way saying that business has not attempted to take advantage of goberment handouts during the gross dumping of money, any business in position to take such advantage would be stupid not to do so, it is called capitalism. But to imply, as tw has so many times, that we invaded because of business interests is patently ridiculous.

classicman · 01-17-2008, 02:44 PM

No they don't just the republicans - duh!

ZenGum · 01-18-2008, 05:46 AM

About the motivation for invading Iraq, have you ever seen a Chinese tug-of-war?
There are four individuals, each pulling individually toward one of the four points of the compass. That is, all four are pulling in different directions. They are connected by a long rope going around all four in a big square. Each person has a chair about 5 feet beyond their reach from the starting point, which they try to reach and sit on.
It often happens that the group as a whole will move under the influence of TWO pullers, and thus move, eg, north-east, even though nobody was pulling north-east.
This is my favorite metaphor for how many political decisions get made. One lobby group wants to have a war but doesn't care where. Someone else wants to pressure Iraq but doesn't want a war. The result is a war against Iraq.
Multiply the complexity by about a hundred and that's about what happens.

DanaC · 01-18-2008, 06:01 AM

Fascinating analogy zengum. I hadn't heard of that way of doing a tug-of-war before.

ZenGum · 01-18-2008, 06:39 AM

I saw it on TV once.
The most interesting thing is that when, say, North gets close to the chair, the angles of the pull mean that East and West will be pulling slightly southwards, thus adding a part of their force to South's efforts against North. Things get harder for North and they may be drawn back a little.
Ever see this happen in politics? One faction gets too far ahead and the others unite to pull them back?

DanaC · 01-18-2008, 06:46 AM

Oh good God, all the time. The old 'my enemy's friend is my friend' attitude. Thing is, just like in the analogy, once you've succeeded in altering the direction of pull, that alliance becomes inconvenient and a new one emerges :P

Urbane Guerrilla · 01-24-2008, 12:00 AM

Tw's slant is consistent. It's so consistent it's monomaniac. Monomaniacs have no friends.

He's not a military genius either, in fact he qualifies as something below a sophos moros in that field owing to want of experience. Yet still, he stubbornly believes we should pay attention to his opinion. What a marvel of denial.

We know better than to listen to you, tw. There is that in our experience and personal development that tells us you're blowing smoke.

DanaC · 01-24-2008, 03:27 PM

We?

Flint · 01-24-2008, 03:29 PM

he's schizophrenic

Griff · 01-24-2008, 04:41 PM

Ah, I was thinking royalty, over-blown Executive branch and all that.

regular.joe · 01-24-2008, 09:09 PM

Maybe he has a mouse in his pocket or he speaks French. We?

01-17-2008, 02:44 PM	#6
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	No they don't just the republicans - duh! __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

01-18-2008, 05:46 AM	#7
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	About the motivation for invading Iraq, have you ever seen a Chinese tug-of-war? There are four individuals, each pulling individually toward one of the four points of the compass. That is, all four are pulling in different directions. They are connected by a long rope going around all four in a big square. Each person has a chair about 5 feet beyond their reach from the starting point, which they try to reach and sit on. It often happens that the group as a whole will move under the influence of TWO pullers, and thus move, eg, north-east, even though nobody was pulling north-east. This is my favorite metaphor for how many political decisions get made. One lobby group wants to have a war but doesn't care where. Someone else wants to pressure Iraq but doesn't want a war. The result is a war against Iraq. Multiply the complexity by about a hundred and that's about what happens. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

01-18-2008, 06:39 AM	#9
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	I saw it on TV once. The most interesting thing is that when, say, North gets close to the chair, the angles of the pull mean that East and West will be pulling slightly southwards, thus adding a part of their force to South's efforts against North. Things get harder for North and they may be drawn back a little. Ever see this happen in politics? One faction gets too far ahead and the others unite to pull them back? __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

01-24-2008, 12:00 AM	#11
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Tw's slant is consistent. It's so consistent it's monomaniac. Monomaniacs have no friends. He's not a military genius either, in fact he qualifies as something below a sophos moros in that field owing to want of experience. Yet still, he stubbornly believes we should pay attention to his opinion. What a marvel of denial. We know better than to listen to you, tw. There is that in our experience and personal development that tells us you're blowing smoke. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

01-24-2008, 03:29 PM	#13
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	he's schizophrenic __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

01-18-2008, 06:01 AM	#8
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Fascinating analogy zengum. I hadn't heard of that way of doing a tug-of-war before.

01-18-2008, 06:46 AM	#10
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Oh good God, all the time. The old 'my enemy's friend is my friend' attitude. Thing is, just like in the analogy, once you've succeeded in altering the direction of pull, that alliance becomes inconvenient and a new one emerges :P

01-24-2008, 03:27 PM	#12
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	We?

01-24-2008, 04:41 PM	#14
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Ah, I was thinking royalty, over-blown Executive branch and all that. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

01-24-2008, 09:09 PM	#15
regular.joe Старый сержант Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women. Posts: 1,464	Maybe he has a mouse in his pocket or he speaks French. We? __________________ Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament. Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius.

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