bac

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by fargon

I have read the only book that matters on the subject "The Holy Bible-KJV" backwards and forwards.

What does it say backwards?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

What does it say backwards?

"There's no escaping it."

[Aliantha]

The end is nigh?

[Aliantha]

What's God got to do with it?

[Tonchi]

I'm sure Dov will tell us, put on your boots

[fargon]

Da Vinci Code is FICTION, and written as FICTION. Come on dov/imprint or what ever personality you are using at the moment give us something we can use as a basis for examination, not some story albeit good about the end times. I would like to discuss this with you cellar style, instead of name calling, and talk of secret societies aka mormons, masons, iluminiti, whatever. We enjoy lively debate here, so debate don't accuse.

Well, I googled the question, and yeah, there is a contingent of whacko's who espouse the beliefs Dov has outlined for us. Of course, you can find a contingent of whacko's who believe most anything you care to imagine and much you wouldn't!

So, who knows? Maybe Imprint is one of those people who read all those novels about the "end of the days" and actually believes that stuff. I mean, Imprint thinks Walmart is a sterling example of free American enterprise and that anybody who doesn't have a job where they pull down at least $50,000/year deserves to be an object of derision or dogfood - whichever comes first. So, we all know how bright Imprint is.

Yeah, I think we should be concerned that we have a president who is a BAC with Messianic delusions. Its damn spooky - and not just for the Jews - for ALL of us!

[FallenFairy]

Fargon is correct. Dan Brown's books are FICTION. that was the point of my post.

dov - Are you refering to Dominionism?? The conspiracy theory that purports that Modern day Christian Anarchists will overthrow the US Gov't and put in place a new gov't based on the Old Testament? And then proceed to take over the world to bring about the end times?

if you want to sway or instruct you must reveal your sources...
I am happy to reveal mine - The Bible - New American Standard.

[Tonchi]

That's very interesting, FallenFairy, because you just described the blueprint the Mormon Church was guarding in the 1890's for the United States of America. We lucked out because the trigger event, namely the Second Coming of Joseph Smith to kick off the party, didn't happen as scheduled. To make the best of the situation, Church leaders instructed the faithful to hide the plural wives and Utah went for statehood instead.

[Trilby]

um....RE: the above. have we entered the TWILIGHT ZONE yet?

i'm wondering...

If you are referring to Tonchi's post re the Mormons and Utah, Bri, the Twilight Zone begins at the Colorado/Utah border near a little town called Paradox. There's uranium tailings everywhere and cows drinking water out of settling ponds with radio-active warnings and EPA notices. Your car radio will be playing:
a) Beethoven's 5th Sympathy courtesy the magnificent Colorado Public Broadcasting Station
b) "Mamma's don't let your baby's grow up to be cowboys" on KRZX - MUSTANG Country Radio!
c) The top 40 all time greatest hits of the Navajo Nation - sung in Navajo with accompanying drums and rattles

You speed past the "Last Chance to Likker Quicker" Store and over the state line into arid, Moroni fearing Utah. 50 miles into Utah, you'll hit the first sign of human life, a town with the unlikely name of Monticello. The Bank of Zion stands prominently across from the LDS church where they won't give water from their outside tap to anyone with out of state of plates. Beer is unheard of, and bigamy is more common than any outsider realizes. Drive south of Monticello to the dry gypsum flats and build yourself a little campfire out there and wait for the Rapture. I'm predicting God goes after Monticello first.

[Tonchi]

Yup, but Mormons do not qualify as BAC unless you take them at face value that their souls will be recycled constantly back into the same family until the (men only) ones reach godhood themselves - oh never mind, it just keeps getting weirder. Just let's say that any Mormon who became BAC would be excommunicated. What I was explaining previously was that Brigham Young and his successor truly believed in a "Millenial Religion", they believed it would all be over before the year 1900 rolled around and the Mormon Church would be fully in charge of the entire USA at that point, to usher in the (their) Kingdom of God. See, you don't have to listen only to the looneys we have around right now to come up with these kinds of crackpot prophesies.

No, strictly speaking, Mormons aren't BAC, but the difference is more taxonomical than it is anatomical. The mindset is the same. Both groups beleive in a coming apocalypse of some sort where only those who believe as they beleive - the "true believers" - will be saved. Both groups are wary of outsiders and tend to be exclusive rather than inclusive. Like the lady at the world center for prayer who asked if I was "saved" and then sent me around to the back entrance when I informed her that I was Buddhist. Oh, yeah, there's always an apocalypse on the horizon somewhere. I loved Bergman's film "The Seventh Seal" and the knight who played chess with Death. Everything was supposed to go toast in 1000 AD. Better luck next time, I guess.

[Tonchi]

I love going to "World Prayer Centers". The first time I toured the Temple in Salt Lake City, I got many horrified looks when I kept asking the guide what archaeological evidence they had for their description of the ancient civilizations in the Book of Mormon. They finally flustered around and told me to come back later and talk to one of their "authorities" on the subject. When I returned, I was shunted off to an office with a very pleasant man who was supposed to be a historian-cum-archaeologist and he recommended several texts for me which I copied down and bought at the Deseret Bookstore that afternoon. Most of their "evidence" turned out to be based on reliefs on the temples of Tuluum, and it's coincidental in my opinion. (If anybody cares, Tuluum happens to be one of the least ancient of all the ruin complexes in Mexico and simply could not fit into any of the Mormon timelines.) We already know that the Catherwood expeditions were in Meso-America around the time Joseph Smith was gearing up in upper NY state and he could have seen the engravings. But the main item that refutes their bogus "history", of course, is that the camels, horses, and even elephants which show up in the Book of Mormon simply did not exist in the new world that they describe and are NOT in any sculptures, reliefs, or writings - heck, the Jews in the Old Testament didn't even use elephants so how did they take them to the New World with them! As you can see, I don't go over very well in discussion with a closed society who only admits their own facts. But neither do I waste my time arguing with people who are already in possession of all the facts as far as they are concerned, I just want to understand what they believe and why because it makes me better able to analyze them instead of just over-reacting to somebody different. Afterwards, I may decide they disgust me anyway, but at least I will understand why there might be concrete reasons for my opinion.

I really don't think you can compare the Mormons with the BAC's. Both of these consider the other mutually excludable. Apocalyptic predictions are so common in the world of religions that we really can't lump together everybody who is teaching that the world is going to end and they will be the only ones saved. Even within the American sects, for instance, you can't associate the Southern Baptists with the Seventh Day Adventists, but both are waiting for the approaching Apocalypse. Remember Mel Gibson's little project about the Mayan underworld, etc.? The ancient Maya described the final destruction of the world in terms similar to Revelations in some ways; does that mean we can lump the Quiche Maya with the Jehovah's Witnesses for that reason? Nope, I think the BACs are a separate species, not really denominational. A species which can't even agree amongst themselves on all the terms and definitions.

[fargon]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) or Mormons, if you will, believes that if your are baptized in abstencia you will be a minor part of their church.

My X-Wife told me after 2 days of marrage that we were mormons and the classes would begin when we returned home. I was shocked and dismayed. She had gone so far as to join my church and even work with a Baptist Outreach as a counselor in the family ministry. I asked her where this came from ( I had known this woman for 20 years at this point and was still feeling shocked.)

She went on to say that my overly simplistic view of religon was based on the myth of the risen Christ and that Jesus came over to this side of the pond when he rose ( sounds contraditory, huh?). Then why are most Native American beliefs multithiestic and nature-based? One would assume that after his ministry in the Middle East he would have had some sucess over here. There's no evidence that He was here. Only the text that Joseph Smith wrote, and that is highly questionable.