10-05-2013, 11:19 AM | #91 | ||
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1) Obama wants to "redistribute wealth", which never goes over well with conservatives. They have that odd idea that their money should stay with them. I know, what a concept. 2) Obama has relentlessly expanded gov't. Number of employee's - way up, expenses - WAY UP, debt ceiling - WAY UP! Obamacare simply moves the feds into your entire medical treatments, etc. Conservatives definitely don't WANT the federal gov't, running their lives, or running their medical care! Once your medial records are all digitized, how long before your personal ID information is hacked into and stolen? You say "Oh, that could never happen!". That's what you thought about Operation Prism when the Patriot Bill was passed, remember? Gov't computers are hacked - even the Pentagon's. As gov't continues to grow, YOU become smaller, and have far less control over your life. 3) Obama refuses to take obvious steps that would endear him to business: keystone pipeline project, remove the medical devices tax he just added, simplify the tax code a bit, and surprise, lower the medical costs, by simply enacting some parts of the legislation in Obamacare, without the rest of it. 4) Obama has given very little respect to the Republicans in general, and conservatives in particular, throughout his term. Every serious error he's made, has been glossed over by the media so incredibly, it's ridiculous. And then there's sonOfABitch in the Senate, and Reid is just someone who's hard to get any negotiating done with. Same with Pelosi, when she was House leader. I did get a hell of a laugh out of Pelosi's statement: "food stamps are a great way to stimulate the economy". That one had me rolling in the aisle. Now Obama wants to negotiate, as will Reid and the Senate, ONLY after the shutdown is ended, and the debt ceiling is raised. Sure! "I'll be glad to negotiate with you, right after I've gotten everything I wanted!" That's not negotiating, is it? That's what the democrats are calling it, but that's not negotiating. Quote:
Since every person will be treated in any emergency room, with or without money, your argument is mostly false. Clearly, lots of people don't get the kind of regular medical exams, etc., that would benefit them, however. I agree that we need a better health care plan in the country. But I don't want the feds running it. Strangely enough, I'd like doctors, hospital managers, and medical insurance experts running our health plan. Last edited by Adak; 10-05-2013 at 11:28 AM. |
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10-05-2013, 12:38 PM | #92 | |
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Adak, do you re-write your posts each time like this,
or do you copy/paste from some where ? If you wish, you could just insert a link. Here it is it for your post above. http://www.cellar.org/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=91 Likewise, I'll just insert a link for my response, like this. ---- OK, now back for the reason the GOP caused this government shutdown... Obamacare. Quote:
As examples: NIH is a federal facility that is treating (some) patients as part of health research projects. VA hospitals are federal facilities around the country that are treating veterans. Who do you feel should run these... for-profit corporations ? As alternative examples: With Obamacare, anyone can sign up for A.C.A. plans of health care coverage. All of their care will come via existing hospitals and doctors, managed by hospital managers in health care plans created by medical insurance experts ... not as part of the federal facilities system. Then reimbursement $ comes from that plan's health insurance provider. In some situations, patients who qualify for Medicare and/or Medicaid (and/or perhaps some other federal programs) will also be treated in these same non-federal system hospitals, but reimbursement $ comes from the federal government. How does Obamacare NOT fit you "likes" ? |
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10-05-2013, 06:28 PM | #93 |
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I write up every reply, individually. A link isn't well received and won't be used, unless it's corroborating the posted text of your reply.
to fit my likes: 1) my medical history stays OUTSIDE any federal databases. 2) the national plan is for everyone. No exemptions, no tax credits, refunds, etc.No unions or corporations get a pass to stay outside the system, etc. If they want more medical coverage than the national plan offers, they can buy it, of course, but EVERYONE is in the national plan if they are a citizen. Non-citizens are not in the plan, and can't join the plan. They don't get free medical care on our dime, as is currently the case. Without a broad base of healthy people, any medical insurance system will go broke, or have to charge exorbitant prices, before long. 3) no "send Grandma home with a pain pill instead of a treatment". "Grandma" gets the same good treatment as the rest of us, if she's in the plan. 4) we pay the same prices as Canada, and the rest of the world, for our drugs. Having us forced to pay 2 to 5 x as much, is a travesty. 5) no changes can be made to the national plan, without a 45 day period of consideration, AFTER the bill is proposed, IN FULL. No more of this "we'll find out what's in the bill, after we pass it". I'm quite familiar with the VA hospitals. Their policies nearly killed my dad. |
10-05-2013, 07:25 PM | #94 |
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If the shills for the 1% hadn't been screaming bad, socialist, redistribution of wealth, and actually worked for it, then everything thing you've listed could have been in this act.
But because of that obstructive action Obama had to weaken the plan by making deals with the drug companies, AMA, Insurance companies, medical equipment manufacturers, et al. And don't tell me they should have debated it longer before voting, that's bullshit. The same people would have voted the same way, like they were told to. Those corporations are powerful because they've got money out the wazoo to buy politicians and hire enough lobbyists to keep a tight rein on them. But the fact remains, no matter how big a war chest the politicians are given, it's stupid voters,(hey that's my party right or wrong) and apathetic voters, (why bother my vote don't count) that allow them to keep screwing us.
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10-05-2013, 08:59 PM | #95 | |||
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Despite my " liberal tendencies "... I do try to read the occasional conservative news source.
I came across this article from Bloomberg News that I find interesting and believable. But be warned, the article is about a report from a highly Democratic political strategist. Bloomberg - The Ticker Francis Wilkinson Oct 4, 2013 Why Republicans Shut Down the Government Quote:
This link (above) will download a pdf file of the "memo" entitled: Inside the GOP: Report on focus groups with Evangelical, Tea Party, and moderate Republicans Quote:
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As the Forbes article says, it is both unsurprising and shocking. These focus groups definitely are NOT always using politically correct language ! |
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10-06-2013, 01:36 AM | #96 |
I love it when a plan comes together.
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Through early morning fog I see
Through never ending debates I see Visions of the things to be Visions of lost security The pains that are withheld for me The culture running away from me I realize and I can see... I realize and I can see... That suicide is painless That govm't shutdown is painless It brings on many changes It brings on many changes And I can take or leave it if I please And I can take or leave it if I please I try to find a way to make I try to find a way to make All our little joys relate All our political views relate Without that ever-present hate Without that ever-present hate But now I know that it's too late, and... But now I know that it's too late, and... Suicide is painless Govm't shutdown is painless It brings on many changes It brings on many changes And I can take or leave it if I please And I can take or leave it if I please The game of life is hard to play The game of politics isn't hard to play I'm gonna lose it anyway We're gonna nay it anyway The losing card I'll someday lay The loser's price I'll someday pay So this is all I have to say So this is all I have to say That suicide is painless That govm't shutdown is painless It brings on many changes It brings on many changes And I can take or leave it if I please And I can take or leave it if I please The only way to win is cheat The only way to win is cheat And lay it down before I'm beat And vote it down into defeat And to another give my seat And on another put some heat For that's the only painless feat For that's the only priceless feat And suicide is painless And govm't shutdown is painless It brings on many changes It brings on many changes And I can take or leave it if I please And I can take or leave it if I please The sword of time will pierce our skins The budget cuts will pierce our skins It doesn't hurt when it begins It doesn't hurt when they begin But as it works its way on in But as they work their way on in The pain grows stronger...watch it grin, but... The pain grows stronger...watch them grin, but... Suicide is painless Govm't shutdown is painless It brings on many changes It brings on many changes And I can take or leave it if I please And I can take or leave it if I please A brave man once requested me A President once requested me To answer questions that are key To gather votes that are key 'Is it to be or not to be' To pass through Congress by majority And I replied 'Oh why ask me?' And I replied 'Oh that's not me?' 'Cause suicide is painless 'Cause govm't shutdown is painless It brings on many changes It brings on many changes And I can take or leave it if I please And I can take or leave it if I please ...and you can do the same thing if you choose ...and you can do the same thing if you're a fool |
10-06-2013, 06:07 AM | #97 |
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The timing of the next election for Representatives, is critical. The Republicans that were elected in 2012, will be up for re-election next year, and they BETTER be able to show their districts/precincts that they have taken conservative actions during their term.
Or they won't have another one. I'd like to believe that Obamacare can be fixed, and put back into the national health care plan I noted, in my last post. I'm afraid however, that it will wind up with an arcane set of regulations, rivaling that of the IRS - with umpteen winners and losers, and tiers in between, all wrapped up in a Gordian Knot. The shut down is just the answer to the question "What can a conservative do, to slow down the fast-running liberal train, in American politics? Right now, that "thing you can do" is to help slow or stop Obamacare, and maybe through negotiations, win some other concessions. Maybe a cut in actual spending NOW, maybe the keystone pipeline, but throw them a bone, a win of some kind, here. Not Obamacare, of course, but SOMETHING tangible. Because nothing else the conservatives have done in the past 2 years, has amounted to a hill of beans. The conservatives know it. The conservative Representatives know that their voters know it, and neither their voters at home, nor the Reps in Congress, are happy about it. For his part, Boehner knows he has been way too quiet, and way too compromising, for way too long. If he kept it up, he'd have been replaced (again!) as the Republican leader in the House. So the Democrat egged on enough Republicans to get something racist, something anti-gay, something goofy or dumb, and he has it published as "REAL". Why am I not surprised? I can do the same leading questions to a bunch of Democrats, and wind up with the same stupid replies, to justify my position that Democrats are racists, intellectually dishonest, and baby-killers. Proving absolutely nothing. No consensus has been reached, no negotiations have made progress. It's just name calling, the other side. Sure, that's what we need right now - more name calling - that writer must be a political genius! Last edited by Adak; 10-06-2013 at 06:21 AM. |
10-07-2013, 04:28 AM | #98 |
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The longer the shut down, the more closely the repercussions of it will remain as part of Obama's legacy.
In the short run, they (Obama and the media) can pin this on the conservatives, but those lousy historians will keep it tied right in with Obama's term. I'm curious how far each party wants to go with this, as the deadline for a debt crisis, draws every closer. I thought Obama did the right thing by calling the parties together to negotiate, and I'm not surprised that no actual negotiations took place. It's too early for that. Time and tide, time and tide. |
10-07-2013, 10:01 AM | #99 |
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And that's what this is all about for ADAK & Co, do everything possible to make that uppity Muslim Kenyan look bad, regardless of the damage to the country and the people.
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10-07-2013, 10:45 AM | #100 | |
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Let's remember, just for a moment, what party was formed, to fight the slavery issue. What party was that? What party did Abraham Lincoln belong to? What party did Martin Luther King Jr. belong to? When Little Rock revolted against racial integration, and the President had to order in the 101st Airborne Regiment, to restore order, what party did that President belong to? For ALL the above, that would be the Republican Party! What party did all the Southern Jim Crow lawmakers belong to, for decades? What party did the governors who rallied the townspeople against racial integration in the schools, causing riots, belong to? In Arkansas, where the 101st Airborne Regiment was brought in to restore civil order and enforce integration, what party did that governor belong to? And in Alabama, when the governor not only rallied his city against racial integration, but himself tried to physically block it, what party did he belong to? All the KKK lynchers were all card carrying members of what party? (can't prove this, but everyone knew) For all the second part, the answer would be the Democratic Party. In truth both parties have their racists, but historically, the Democrats have FAR outweighed the Republicans in racists. That's true in Federal, as well as state governments. So your racist slur is a bit off the mark, Bruce. And living in the rural South, I have a long memory of the separate drinking fountains, separate entrances, separate businesses, etc. If you want to get a feel for what it was like, read the book "Black Like Me". It's not a horrific account of an adventure being a black man, but you get an accurate depiction of it, imo. It was a movie as well. Side Note: The guy who dyed his skin black (with the help of a doctor), did eventually die of cancer caused by the treatments to make his skin black, iirc. |
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10-07-2013, 10:49 AM | #101 | |
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Of course, the racism of today isn't usually as blatant as it was 50 years ago. Much more subtle. |
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10-07-2013, 10:53 AM | #102 |
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Pres Johnson predicted the jump when he signed the Civil Rights Bill
It's now the difference is between racism de jure vs de facto, particularly in those areas of the country affected by the Civil Rights Law. |
10-07-2013, 10:57 AM | #103 |
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After Kennedy was assassinated, there was a huge outpouring of sympathy and sense of loss. President Johnson used that (he was a power broker politician, I can tell you!), to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Truly landmark law, that Kennedy wanted, but couldn't get enough support for. President Johnson did, and no one wanted to be on record voting against it - except the racists, of course. Other civil rights legislation followed, with Democrats in charge. Racists bailed. Some old and politically strong Republicans were racists, and they coddled them for further support. Democrats were sick of them, by then anyway. |
10-07-2013, 04:22 PM | #104 |
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Read up on Nixon's Southern Strategy as well.
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10-07-2013, 05:46 PM | #105 | ||||
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I get emails forwarded to me that are making their way through the conservative network. Mostly outrageous claims and twisted truths, but the email will contain links proving they're telling the truth. But if you go to the links they say the exact opposite, which means these morons in the header history, read it, believed it, forwarded it, but never checked it. Quote:
9-11 brought the country together and we know what Bush did with it.
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